My opinion, just based on what I’ve seen over many years with no scientific evidence to back it up, is waterfront development and everything that comes with it.
I don’t know that creek, but I know a lot of similar ones around Savannah and Hilton Head and Bluffton with the same condition.
First off they cut down all the trees around the water and replaced them with golf courses, huge green lawns and asphalt lots. The creeks relied on the run off of decayed plant and animal life to supply nutrients for the bottom of the food chain. Now the run off the creeks feed on are herbicides, pesticides, fertilizers and oil, gas and exhaust residues. Not to mention sewage spills and bacterial infections. Tybee Island beaches are regularly closed to swimmers due to high bacteria levels. Where does this stuff come from?
Shrimp populations continues to fall, crab populations dismal, oysters and clams declining, can’t even remember the last time I caught a gaff topsail cat and we used to catch them by the hundreds. We have poisoned the bottom of the food chain and it’s working up the chain.
I never fish around docks, houses, golf courses or populated area, I run way out in the marshes and get as far away from that stuff and their watersheds as I can. You can still find good fishing and shrimping but you have to go further to do it than ever before, and if it keeps on, maybe not even then.
Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats
“Ships are the nearest things to dreams that hands have ever made.” -Robert N. Rose
I’m sure you all have experienced years where the immature redfish (under 15 lbs) were almost all the same size, or maybe two sizes. That’s because two or three of the possible age classes had been nearly wiped out by cold kill of the fry in the marshes. Sometimes this happens in three or four consecutive years, and then the inshore population collapses. Sounds like that’s what you are experiencing, plus last winter must have been bad too. I guess those puppies would be around 10" this time of year, if any to speak of survived last winter.
Thanks to the slot limit, there are plenty of old ladies out there to keep spawning until a couple of good winters allow the inshore population to rebuild.
Of course, the things Capt. Larry talks about could be playing a role too.
Can anyone that fishes regularly out of McClellenville chime in on this? As pristine as that area is I cant imagine runoff affecting that area as much as recruitment and cold weather. Agricultural runoff is a major problem that needs to be addressed. Look what it does to the GOM and Great Lakes. The EPA is so ball less. They would probably never stand up to The Monsantos of this world to try and come up with some sort of solution.
Larry… although there has been some growth on the Leadenwah over the last 20 years it has been been negligible insofar as
the shoreline is concerned. There has been little development and most of the property is held for generations. There has been increased traffic and some new development, but not enough to cause the impact described here. In the early 80’s (like 1980) we would put a john boat in above the flats and paddle over, gig flounder that curled up in a #2 washtub and limit out in 2-3 hours. Haven’t fished it in years, but intend to check it out. I know several people that live there…
I’m going to go out this weekend and do some experimenting. I am going to try for flounder, trout and reds. I’ll try my hardest. Lol. That area is gorgeous and I really enjoy being out there. I have memories of that Leadenwah, Bohicket and N. Edisto area that take me back. I learned how to swim in the Bohicket. I’ll keep going there even if I never catch another fish. It is my 10 yr old’s favorite spot. One of his first trips out there yielded a dozen nice whiting and a couple sharks. He calls it “our” spot now.
As a regular weekend fishing fanatic, I can attest to the significant decline is slot redfish this year. I fish the South Edisto,Pine Landing, Hutchinson Island, Otter Island, and Bennett’s Point area and the decrease is very noticeable. We can usually catch juveniles (under 15") or the big bruisers (over 23"). Another fish that is missing is black drum, which were actually quite plentiful last year. I have two theories to share: this past winter was a lot more damaging than reported and law enforcement. I will take my boat out anytime it is not raining in the winter and we saw a lot of floaters this past winter. Most were trout, but there were redfish as well. I have no numbers to report, BUT I did not see this kill off in the winter of 2013. Secondly, the lack of DNR LEO leads to many folks keeping whatever they can catch. It is a fact that many on this board can attest to by eyewitness accounts. Who hasn’t run into someone fishing from a bridge or land with a bucket or cooler of illegal fish? Forget trying to explain the law to them, most do even have a license or speak English for that matter.
I also agree with Captain Larry about the environmental aspect of runoff and overbuilding. Another item of note is the decrease in the dolphin population. I now that there is a virus to blame, but it points to something in the environment.
One interesting item of note (mentioned by several folks across all the SW forums) is the amazing abundance of mullet in the water. I literally cannot throw a cast net off of my dock without catching mullet. This is at nearly every tide stage except dead low.
I truly hope that we are experiencing a cyclical population event and not the beginning of a pronounced decline in the redfish population. Usually by this time of the year, we have had a least two (or three)trips worthy of an epic fishing report. It has not happened yet this year and reading the reports, it hasn’t happened to many other folks either. A few species not suffering are sharks, sting rays, and sturgeons as
I would like to know more details on this subject if you have accurate numbers of stocked fish in the N. Edisto since 2009. The flat in front of Bear’s Bluff used to be loaded. Now, it is empty… As Optiker said, redfish populations in area creeks and flats are down at least 75% from peak fishing in 2009. I agree with you that some sort of environmental force is the cause, and I’m hoping it is just the down part of a cycle. Most will be quick to blame it on fishing pressure, but that simply is wrong. Angling pressure is definitely a factor, but the rate of population decline is nowhere close to being inversely proportional to the increase in the number of anglers in the area. The general consensus from a HUGE majority of tournament anglers and captains I know who fish from Savannah to Morehead say inshore populations are significantly down in ALL their local waters.
RADDADDY,
I apologize for not responding as I’m in the midst of a summer vacation week. I don’t have access to numbers in front of me, but I can say without a doubt that stocked redfish help and give us a lot of info on red drum. However, differences in stocking from year to year should not result in the swings you are talking about. We do seem to be in the midst of two poorer year classes of red drum from the past few, and that sometimes hits some areas harder than others. When I return, I’ll try to provide more information on the subject.
quote:Larry, is anyone reporting larger numbers of small slot fish this year due to the HUGE amount of fingerlings stocked in the Cheechessee last year?
No. I haven’t been fishing much lately but haven’t had any big catches of any size when I have been. Just mediocre. From all the reports I’ve heard from friends, nobody is tearing them up very often. I don’t think it was cold enough last year to hurt any redfish. Maybe 2 years ago it was. The cold seems to effect the trout more than reds.
It’s more than cold hurting our fish. We’ve had a lot of cold years in the last 60. I don’t know what it is but think pollution is the root problem.
I sure do appreciate the SC redfish and other fish stocking programs they do. But we got something going on that ain’t good. When we can’t catch catfish and crabs, something is wrong at the bottom of the chain.
Also don’t think it has anything to do with boat traffic, fish are used to hearing boats. When underwater I can hear one from a mile away, I imagine a fish can hear it from 20 miles. Don’t think it is fishing pressure either. With today’s limits you can’t keep enough fish to hurt the population and most people can’t catch a limit anyway. 5% of fishermen catch 95% of the fish. The rest are just clogging up the creeks One dolphin probably eats more redfish in a week than a good fisherman takes home in a year, and I think the dolphin population is down too.
Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats
“Ships are the nearest things to dreams that hands have ever made.” -Robert N. Rose
As promised, i went out to the Leadenwah area today. Gave it a good try. No reds. Didn’t see any, didn’t see any pushes, didn’t see any breaks. Fished mullet (cut and live), shrimp and menhaden, on the bottom and a float. Tried about ten very promising holes. Nothing! Finally gave up and went to catch whiting and sharks. Got one 4 footer to the boat before he broke off. Hooked something (probably a shark) that never stopped, only had 15lb tackle tho. Maybe better luck next time.
I wish I would have read this thread Thursday. Friday I made the ride down from WestAshley to Cherry Point, went out fished the creek just past the dock going out of Bohicket, no luck what so ever. Went on out to big water right in front of the Seabrook resort, used my same Flounder set-up I use in the Bird Key area and guess what not one bite on the minnows, but caught plenty of Whiting all on Fishbites, I swear that stuff is Crack for the Whiting, but long story short not the fishing day I had hoped for, guess I will save the gas and just fish the Ashley or Folly, at least I am catching fish there. But one thing the scenery is awesome in the N. Editsto, great place to take the wife for adventuring.
Although it seems to be true that reds of some size can stand the cold better than trout–from what I’ve read, cold kill is a huge factor with the young of the year and commonly nearly wipes out an age class. We are talking about very small fry that live in the spartina grass and do not move around much. They do not run with the tides as puppies and larger reds do. When a low tide occurs in early morning, the skinny water cools off fast. You can’t predict a kill by air temperature alone, because tide phase and cloud cover complicate the picture. That would account for different kill rates between areas that had similar air temperatures. Looks like Edisto had worse luck than Beaufort or Charleston, for some reason.
Just recently moved closer to chery point landing and have been fishing it 2 to 3 times a week, last year leadenwah and flats around it had an abundance of reds, ranging from 18 to 22 inches seem like this year all the same fish are there because all the fish I’ve caught have either been 20 inches or 24 1/2 just as David mentioned! Last year fall time I did pretty well with the trout in the small creeks in the inlet area but nothing compared to what I’ve heard it use to be like.
I have fished the mouth of the leadenwah for the past ten years and during the winter there are at least 3 to 5 boats fishing that spot at low tide per day! You can do the math as to why the fish have dwindled. I like to catch reds but would perfer trout for supper.I always release reds to fight another day,but i watch the boats around me take there limits. If you like to fish in a quiet place with fewer boats and fish then rockville is the place for you. I love the area but the fishing and shrimping leave much to be desired. You have to work hard for your catch.
My family has a dock on bohicket and I kayak from there. I have seen one red tailing in the marsh and i have seen a lone red pushing up a mud bank but i have never caught any there.
Three weeks ago I fished the north Edisto after an absence of 15 years. The water was mostly what I remember (except for a few new docks at the best spots) but the old fishing holes had changed and weren’t productive. I never did do all that well back then. I have improved a lot and now target flounder and fish entirely different from 15 years ago. I did ok on the flounder, and lady fish were as pesky as pin fish and a lot more fun.
I have noticed the same decline in the Wando (Holbrech and Nowell creeks specifically) progressing over the past several years. I have attributed that to the fishing pressure. Some is the change in the water. Some creeks have silted in, but new ones have been created.
DNR with their seeding of oysters has created some great new areas. My take on flounder has increased both from my new found ability, and from the changes in the limits. The first year the size was raised from 12 to 13 there was a noticeable increase in our take. (my fishing buddy always fishes mud minnows and I fish artificial) the increase in size to 14 inches helped again, and I suspect the reduction in numbers will help too.
The winter survival probably makes the most sense. Trout are not as good as five or six years ago either when we had such a hard winter and a lot of fish kill. I try to take as few reds and trout as I can. Although I don’t fish for them they often save a dull day.
We are seeing reports of under-slot reds being caught. These would be young of the year, around 1 lb., that are getting large enough to be commonly caught. It’s good news that some fry survived the hard winter, but there probably are not a great number of them. When they enter the slot (November?) they may be vulnerable to over harvest by anglers and dolphins.
I fished that area twice last week. There are little 10" reds and a few 30"+. Also there are some trout all about 10-12". IMO there should a no-keep restriction in those waters until numbers improve but I don’t believe dnr has authority to do anything other than suggest it. Right now it doesn’t matter because there are almost no fish (reds, trout) in the slot anyway!
Fished Rockville Friday and Sunday morning and both days I caught 20 + reds, prob 15 of them look like they came out of a mold, all 20 inches. Plenty of fish to be caught in the slot, but the time of the year and where the fish are change all the time. I was fishing the main waterways with not much success and changed my tactics and it paid off tremendously…
One dolphin probably eats more redfish in a week than a good fisherman takes home in a year, and I think the dolphin population is down too.