LONGLINERS

quote:
Originally posted by skinneej
quote:
Originally posted by Redstripe

Those are great ideas, but pressure needs to ease on wild stocks.


I disagree (depending on which stock\fishery you are talking about). I think that the current limits (at least in our area) are fine. Sure, the local reefs get pounded beyond comprehension, but most of our fishery is hidden. If you are talking about pelagics, then yes, my points about reef building are not applicable.

That being said, this is a simple supply vs demand issue. You say, “we need to reduce demand” (i.e. reduce pressure). But your ability to meet that demand is only limited by your supply. If you increase supply, you can increase demand. If supply can outpace demand, then there is no reason to further decrease demand.

One more thing to point out. It’s 2017. We solve everything by technology. Imagine if we determined that the world was running out of corn. Would you tell me that we need to limit the pressure on corn? Maybe that is a valid recommendation, but wouldn’t it make sense to look at technology? Other potential solutions would be to increase corn production (i.e. more fields, research how to get more corn per acre, larger corn, etc).

Also, know that in the great lakes > 90% of the fish caught are from hatcheries. So, it’s possible to sustain the “wild” using technology.

Until you can stop mankind from increasing in number, technology is really the only sustainable solution.
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Again, my “ideas” have been proven. Alabama is a prime example. It’s time to scale it out.


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Technology is being used in finding cheap, healthy, non gmo feedstocks to grow farmed fish. If you grow millions of pounds of farmed fish that are healthy to eat, and people will buy, it will drive the price down where people will opt for the farmed fish, and the long liners and commercial guys will fall to a negligible level. So technically we agree.

quote:
Originally posted by Redstripe

Technology is being used in finding cheap, healthy, non gmo feedstocks to grow farmed fish. If you grow millions of pounds of farmed fish that are healthy to eat, and people will buy, it will drive the price down where people will opt for the farmed fish, and the long liners and commercial guys will fall to a negligible level. So technically we agree.


Yes, I agree that there is a market for junk seafood grown commercially.

That being said, there are a few problems here:

  1. Not all fish can be commercially farmed and yield a profit. Red snapper is the perfect example. The growth rate is too slow to turn a profit. Something like a cobia however could be.
  2. Pen raised mahi-mahi? These fish require a LOT of water. I’ve seen them in the SC aquarium years ago. They didn’t last long.
  3. Commercial aquaculture seems to have a bigger negative effect on the environment than artificial reefs. I wouldn’t eat a farm raise tilapia.
  4. People who actually like the taste of seafood realize that there is a stark contrast in products. Try a farm raised shrimp vs an ocean caught shrimp. Try a farm raised salmon vs a wild caught west coast salmon. Night and day to anyone with taste buds.

That being said, I do agree that all forms of longlining should be eradicated. Not necessarily because of “fishing pressure”, but because it promotes indiscriminate killing. Pressure is only a factor of # hooks in the water which could be regulated.

I don’t take issue with hook and line forms of commercial fishing, just longlining.

I’m sure all of those people lining up at Crabby Mikes in MB can tell Basa from BSB. I’m talking about protein to feed the world, not A 50 plate at Husk. I’m out.

quote:
Originally posted by Redstripe

I’m sure all of those people lining up at Crabby Mikes in MB can tell Basa from BSB. I’m talking about protein to feed the world, not A 50 plate at Husk. I’m out.


Understood. I’m just pointing out that while aquaculture might help in some areas, it is not the “end all, be all”…

Which plate at Crabby Mike’s specifically are you talking about targeting for aquaculture then?

And then there is the other problem. The assumption that shifting pressure from commercial fishing to aquaculture will be “enough”. As mentioned previously, recreational fishermen are the majority of pressure on many stocks that we are interested in nowadays. I believe they have the lionshare of dolphin quota (I bring this one up because it’s directly applicable to longlining). The longliners are begging to borrow our quota once they hit their limit.

So, even if you could “farm” the doradofish and eliminate the commercial sector, what did we really accomplish?

In my limited experience I feel like I’ve seen first hand the benefits of rec limits and restrictions. Commercial boats can keep smaller fish than rec anglers but the fish always seem to be a hair smaller than rec limits. This may just be the areas I fish are rec areas and not commercial. Limits are the few things we can control. Look what dnr stocking has done inshore combined with limit adjustments. I think more reefs would be a big player, not just mpas, if it was mpas then our fishing should be way better based off the amount of mpas we have.

quote:
Originally posted by 40inchreds

In my limited experience I feel like I’ve seen first hand the benefits of rec limits and restrictions. Commercial boats can keep smaller fish than rec anglers but the fish always seem to be a hair smaller than rec limits. This may just be the areas I fish are rec areas and not commercial. Limits are the few things we can control. Look what dnr stocking has done inshore combined with limit adjustments. I think more reefs would be a big player, not just mpas, if it was mpas then our fishing should be way better based off the amount of mpas we have.


Tell me what you base your knowledge of commercial catch on? I have fished commercial and we did not bring short fish to the dock. It was not worth the fines or loss of license. Take the rec restrictions X 10 and that’s what the comm fishers deal with. The commercial longliners are working the east side of the stream - far from the reach of most rec fishers. With good electronics & SST info they can target their catch much better and have greatly reduced by catch.

I meant commercial have smaller size limits on keepers than rec on some common species. Say if commercial sea bass is 2 inches shorter than rec but all the fish are a tiny bit short of the rec limit, its probably the rec anglers dominating the harvest in that area.

I think it’s just 1 or 2 species like that. BSB is the only one that comes to mind for me. Having a different size limit for recs vs commercial certainly creates animosity. Whether it accomplishes anything else is speculation from what I gather. Admittedly, my memory is fuzzy on that topic, but it might have something to do with the BSB pot fishery.

Were the BSB pots white…so the fish couldn’t see them?

quote:
Originally posted by 40inchreds

I meant commercial have smaller size limits on keepers than rec on some common species. Say if commercial sea bass is 2 inches shorter than rec but all the fish are a tiny bit short of the rec limit, its probably the rec anglers dominating the harvest in that area.


this is not true.

Skinnee,
You argue this discussion quite well. It would be great to hear your points discussed in front of the SAFMC panel. I spoke at 5-6 SAFMC meetings between GA, here, and NC in the last 2 years, and sadly I was the only person there to ever discuss needing more artificial reefs and continued focus on adding to our fishery habitat. I referenced the program in Alabama and mentioned several other points.

Im sure you write letters and etc but I really feel that intelligent voices are more powerful in person at the meetings. Let your voice be heard in 2017 at the meetings please sir

quote:
Originally posted by FishnBarrels

Skinnee,
You argue this discussion quite well. It would be great to hear your points discussed in front of the SAFMC panel. I spoke at 5-6 SAFMC meetings between GA, here, and NC in the last 2 years, and sadly I was the only person there to ever discuss needing more artificial reefs and continued focus on adding to our fishery habitat. I referenced the program in Alabama and mentioned several other points.

Im sure you write letters and etc but I really feel that intelligent voices are more powerful in person at the meetings. Let your voice be heard in 2017 at the meetings please sir


Yes. I need to go to more. I have spoken at a few, and I am still plugged in through a recreational fishing voice, but because of scheduling, I haven't been to a meeting in person in the past couple years.
quote:
Originally posted by skinneej
quote:
Originally posted by Redstripe

We need to start farming the seas. All of the stigmas attached to this can be overcome. They have developed an Omega 3 rich seaweed as a feed stock. Commercial guys need to become a niche market.


I’ve got a better idea, though fairly similar…

The government should give the coastal states a few million bucks each year to develop their artificial reefs. We have about 45 or so in SC and our budget is pretty small (100K-200K if I recall). 95% of the ocean floor out to the continental shelf is just barren sand. Imagine what our fishery would be like if there were 1000+ artificial reefs off of our coast and if the numbers were only published on maybe 30% of them? Fishing would be stupid…


I’ve always thought about this. Live bottom is so critical and artificial reef structure really isn’t that expensive. Why don’t we just make hundreds or even thousands of reefs?

We must be careful to use proper materials for reefs. Not too far back a tire reef off GA came apart and there were beached from GA to NC. Alabama allows private reef building within limits on materials, and height off the bottom. Its illegal to build your own reef off SC.

quote:
Originally posted by natureboy

We must be careful to use proper materials for reefs. Not too far back a tire reef off GA came apart and there were beached from GA to NC. Alabama allows private reef building within limits on materials, and height off the bottom. Its illegal to build your own reef off SC.


Fully agree. That being said, they have decades of history in place now that we can learn from. They can implement “best practices” through an education\permitting program.

In Alabama, you pay like $25 for a permit and DNR will come by and inspect your materials.

Then, when you deploy, it must be in a zone marked as a valid reef building zone. These zones are huge though so finding other people’s stuff is hard.

I am actually moving to alabama soon, i have fished out of both states and i can tell you alabama has got it going on. I’m not excited to move away from charleston, but i am excited about the chance to drop by own “private” reef and also fish on the plethora of public reefs that are already available