Morally Bankrupt

My take on some of the political atmosphere.

So if you don?t know the reason the military community is upset about the budget deal. Here are the real reasons:

The military is under a retirement plan. The retirement plan used to be called ?Final Pay.? Final Pay was 50% of your base pay at 20 years with 2.5% added every year after 20 years until your 30 year mark for a maximum of 75% of your final base pay with cost of living adjustments (COLA). Cost of living that the politicians have caused in many areas. Not long after I enlisted in 1993, the retirement plan was changed from ?Final Pay? to ?High Three? and the ?Career Status Bonus.? Both the High Three and Career Status Bonus were designed to shave money off of the retirement payments. Ok, we got the retirement plans, and the devil is in the details.

High Three = 50% of your base pay averaged over three years with 2.5% added every year after 20 years for a maximum of 75% of the High Three years averaged at 30 years plus full COLA.

CSB = a $30,000 so called bonus at your 15 year mark with a promise to stay until at least 20 years. By the way, the $30,000 is taxed at 28% and you really walk away with around $21, 500. Then at 20 years, you get 40% of your High Three average minus 1% COLA until age 62 with a one-time catch up. CSB also adds a percentage per year after 20 years until it catches up to the same 75% of the High Three Average at 30 years. The $30,000 bonus actually ends up being a loan for the rest of your life in which a person loses approximately $250,000 over a lifetime.

High Three is by far the better deal unless you actually stay until 30 years, which is extremely rare with no certainty of getting promoted in order to stay till 30 years.

So, the budget deal took 1% COLA from retirees for a $600M saving over ten years for a total of $6B. What they also did not mention was the active duty pay raise. Instead of a 1.8% pay raise as mandated by law, we received a 1.0% pay raise for another $540M a year savings?so, around

I am not, have never been, military. Was a brat when I was little. You are completely correct. We owe you what we (society) agreed to. And, we should honor that long before we do a bunch of the stupid stuff we do with money at the federal level. Hopefully, you will be made whole before it is all over with.

Thanks for your service.

17’ Henry O Hornet
26’ Palmer Scott

which is tantamount to a contract in exchange for military service.

Uhh, it’s also tantamount to a service contract in exchange for something. Like a bonus, like a promotion, like a PCS, like a school,like continued service until retirement eligible (wasn’t always a sure thing). Used to be called an active duty service commitment. Yeah, the 1% reduction in COLA sucks, but that infamous E-7 will see the better part of a million dollars in his expected lifetime, not including any COLA whatever, it pushes over a million with COLA. Not exactly peanuts for a 20 year retirement, military or otherwise.

The reduction in disability COLA is just wrong, and Congress should be held accountable if they don’t change that … :face_with_head_bandage:

This is just part of then reduction of the DOD budget. The RIF will start very soon and tens of thousands will be released from active duty. This will just add to the terrible economic mess that the skinny socialist and Congress have created.

Reelly Old,

Yep…I understand that one, and good point. Like you said…taking from the wounded warriors is what real gets me bent out of shape. However, you probably have a good idea of the inner owrkings of the military. And, because of the 15 years election, perhaps they should at least take a fair approach and draw a line in the sand like they did with turning Final Pay into two separate retiement plans. I’ll have to do a little research, but there is a commission examining the retiement plans now for future changes. At least let them finish the job before doing backdoor deals and dropping it on top of us at the last second…mostly only for political gain. Again, I understand that point and every organization has waste, but the waste from the guys in uniform is small in comparison to the contractors and the DOD military industrial complex, which is far more waste and political scams.

hhi angler,

That is already happening in big ways, and it is going to happen much more. The Amry is going to get hit the hardest follwed by the Navy. We are already cutting people at rapid rate in the USMC–mostly first termers and middle management. There is some at the O-6 level but not a frequent. And, promotions have come to snails pace. More to follow later on Reelly Old’s point.


2012 Skeeter ZX22 Bay
Yamaha 250 hp SHO
Minnkota Riptide 101

Reelly Old,

Frist off let me say this: I don’t think for one second that I am more patriotic than you or any other American citizen. Sacrificing for the Nation is what I do for a living. I don’t mind doing my part, but it should at least make sense. With that being said, the back door political deal that brought about the 1% COLA reduction for military retirees baffles my mind because I fail to see how military retirees or any other citizen, for that matter, are less important than illegal aliens. If you can explain that one to me, I would like to hear it.

The reduction for the wounded warriors was not a reduction in disability per se, The wounded warriors are, in fact, medically retired. Politicians are/will be taking straight from their retirement pay. As you know, changing it is 10 times harder than not doing it in the first place.

2012 Skeeter ZX22 Bay
Yamaha 250 hp SHO
Minnkota Riptide 101

… the back door political deal that brought about the 1% COLA reduction for military retirees baffles my mind because I fail to see how military retirees or any other citizen, for that matter, are less important than illegal aliens.

I retired some years ago, but when I was ‘in’ there were few if any major changes that weren’t telegraphed well in advance, particularly pay issues. Retirement pensions have been undergoing dramatic changes for the last decade (or more), and retired military (me!) has been spared for the most part. Until now, anyway. Yeah, we won’t receive as much during our expected lifespan, but we’re still on the rolls with no actual reduction, there will be increases, which is far better than what’s happened to many, many other able, as well as disabled, Americans.

Expect the current administration to bail out of Afghanistan by year end (unless they’re really, really stupid), so prepare for the RIF to follow. I was privy to two over my years, and this one won’t be pretty, either. But know it will go the other way in 8-12 years, but with a whole new cadre of warriors. The country won’t be the same, and neither will the military.

You’ll have to expound on how illegal aliens are considered more important than military retirees, I fail to see the connection so I have no explanation …

From my original post:

“To make matters worse, the politicians were in favor of keeping the tax breaks worth $4.2B a year for illegal aliens over the $600M a year for military retirees. Yeah, it gets our blood boiling. Illegal aliens, who have done nothing for the Nation, are favored over the patriots.”

We are on the same side with this according to our post conversations for the most part as far as I can tell. In any event, that is the part I am refering to when you made a partial rebuttal. Unless you have direct evidence that can refute it…that is the way I understand it went down. It might be because I am on the other side of the planet right now (Okinawa), but we did not see this thing coming at all. The few military affiliations that do lobby for us all said they were caught with their pants down in the news too.

2012 Skeeter ZX22 Bay
Yamaha 250 hp SHO
Minnkota Riptide 101

Below is an open letter from Chuck Wooten to Paul Ryan. Paul Ryan help concot this deal, and then, he sends chuck an e-mail asking for donations. If you have not seen it, I thought I would share it with this thread.

To Congressman Paul Ryan
Today at 8:19 AM
Congressman Ryan,
Please note that this request by you for a cash donation from me is extremely unfortunate and very ill-timed. You see sir, I am one of the military retirees your ?bipartisan? budget just impacted. You and every Republican (both in the House and Senate that voted to pass this travesty betrayed and broke trust with me and everyone like me. You may not know us by name, but we?re the people, Congressman, who answered our Nation?s call, some of us at a very early age to willingly serve YOU and others LIKE YOU so you could safely attend college and pursue your personal ambitions without fear of harm.
You might also want to note that for at least 20 years, my brothers-in-arms answered that call of duty EVERY SINGLE DAY, without fail, without complaint, without enough money to sustain our loved ones we had to leave behind while we DID OUR JOB in every corner of the Earth. And for that service, we were given absolute assurance our so-called retirement benefits would be protected by law. The very law you shattered in your zeal to impress your Democratic cohorts in your back room deal?with the enemy. Yes, I said it. The liberal Democrats are an enemy to the American people and our Nation. Your lack of judgment and eagerness to compromise on the backs of us who protected you is sickening. Congressman, you and every Republican that voted for injuring military retirees have engaged in a complicit, sordid affair with the Democrats who?s objective has always been to dismantle the military. By climbing into their bed on this issue, you have confirmed you are absolutely no better than they and have proven it with your vote.
Congressman Ryan, the audacity which you display is noteworthy, but to unceremoniously snatch earned money from a small group th

Skeeter I saw it happen twice(army) and the RIFS will reduce the force to a pathetic shell. As it goes along they will keep making it more stringent to stay in. It got down to previous driving violations, over age in grade etc. Dumped tens of thousands of Rotary Wing Aviators in one month. Army is planning on 22,000 O-3 that way they can eliminate most field grade promotions. Enlisted ranks will see the same deal for NCO’s.

Yes, I believe the Army is going to take the biggest hit–mainly because of the size of the Army. We are taking a phased approach; however, the phased approach still stings for some. Career Designation boards for Lt’s are getting more and more brutal. Sgt’s and SSgt’s are taking a hit also. General Amos is doing his best to draw down the force over several years instead of an abrupt dumping. We were at 202K, and we are supposed to get down to 182K. I’m not sure how that is going to work out because Chuck Hagel says 170K in the Marine Times. Of course, the Marines times is not even good enough to use as toilet paper.

I know several guys that have been shown the door now after 8-12 years already. It is likely to get worse. In relation to the topic, suggested changes are popping up all the time. Most of the things that govern pay and allowances for us is written into law. Just like the passing of the bill to take away from the wounded warriors, those things are much harder to change than just not doing something stupid in the first place.

2012 Skeeter ZX22 Bay
Yamaha 250 hp SHO
Minnkota Riptide 101