quote:
Originally posted by OccamsRaiser
Do you guys think SAFMC is doing this to deliberately hurt fishermen? I think they are doing it to preserve the species. I don’t see some big government conspiracy here guys. The GT Hole is a unique geomorphology that is a prime spawning ground for the fish we all want our grandkids to be able to catch. It’s a HUGE ocean. Let the grouper/snapper species spawn in big numbers there and they will eventually migrate out to find less competitive food sources where you can catch them. People can find somewhere else in that giant expanse of water to fish if they close a 15 square mile area and just to bottom fishing at that!
No, they are not doing it to hurt fishermen. I've said this MANY times... They are doing it because 1) A few guys that have been on the council for 20+ years think it's a valid solution and 2) They want to change the paradigm of fisheries management forever (i.e. leave their mark on history), and 3) Because they want the "cheapest" option. It doesn't cost NMFS any budget dollars to close fishing grounds. NMFS flat out REFUSES to fund fisheries management with the necessary capital so Greg Waugh takes the cheapest option... No money is needed to close fishing grounds.
But the evidence is clear… Commercial fishing is just a SHADOW of what it was in the 1970’s. The problem has been long gone. Fish stocks were rebounding before the closures came. We will never learn this because they give credit to closures. Pretty much everyone who spends time on the water knew that the red snapper were roaring back before the closures happened. Pretty much everyone knows that the Nassau grouper has been closed for 20+ years and the stock level hasn’t changed one bit…
The problem is that they are trying to apply a “one size fits all” model to both the flori
Well put Skinneej.
Guys, if you can’t make it to meetings, send emails to representatives and council members.
Apathy will end up with bottom fishing being completely closed.
And to the comment of finishing another place to fish, you obviously don’t do much bottom fishing. If you think the entire ocean has groupers on the seafloor. Fish live on structure because bait congregates there.
NOAA likes to play that card… they do a study over sand (no structure) don’t catch any fish, and decide to close down some fisheries because they are all obviously endangered.
Rarely is the easy way, the best way.
quote:
Originally posted by Beaufort Boy
I attended yesterday’s meeting from 6pm or so until maybe 6:45pm, and only one other member of the public was there during that time period. According to documents and the presentation: There are several size areas being proposed for GT Hole, the largest being 15.2 sq miles and the smallest 1.0 sq mile. The Snapper Grouper AP supports a 3.1 sq mile closed area at G-town hole. There is a sunset provision that in a nutshell states that Spawning SMZ’s will be reviewed/researched and if they are not these zones will be re-opened to bottom fishing. Like Fishmonger states above, as the amendment is currently written if you have bottom fish on board you cannot enter the SMZ. You can currently enter an MPA with bottom fish on board. The grand total square miles for all proposed sites between NC and Key West, if the maximum # is used, is 53 sq miles closed, but the Snapper Grouper AP is recommending 36 sq miles. Someone may want to check my simple addition on this but I’m certainly not arriving at “hundreds of square miles”.
Sea Hunt 207CC,Yam F150
Carolina Skiff (old school model)17’ Suz D50
As a AP member I assure you at last meeting we did not agree with any 36 mile closures… maybe it was before my time
Fishmonger, I’m referring to the total square miles of all preferred SMZ’s from NC to Key West, not one in particular. See link below for Snapper/Grouper AP recommendations.
It’s well documented that certain snapper/grouper species travel long distances to spawn at very specific areas. Establishing large scale Area 51’s will not change that migratory pattern. I do agree that adding such habitat would be a huge plus for all bottom dwellers and I wish the Fed’s would partner with state agencies, fishing organizations, etc to establish them.
The entire conspiracy thing is nuts. There have been many many knowledgeable and reputable commercial fishermen, recreational fishermen, and scientists that have served as Council Members and Advisory Panel members since 1976.
Page 202 to page 208 or so
http://safmc.net/sites/default/files/meetings/pdf/Public%20Hearings%20&%20Scoping/08-2015/WEB_SGAm36PHVersion_080515.pdf
Snapper Grouper Advisory Panel
Comments and Recommendations
At their April 2015 meeting, the AP
approved the following motions:
MOTION: SUPPORT THE GEORGETOWN
HOLE AREA BUT NO LARGER THAN 3.1
SQUARE MILE AND ADD ALTERNATIVE
FOR AREA 51 AND 53. APPROVED BY AP
(10/0)
MOTION: COUNCIL CONSIDER AN AREA
ADDING TO THE NORTHERN SC MPA TO
THE SOUTH AND OFFSHORE TO BE
EVALUATED AS AN ALTERNATIVE TO
THE GEORGETOWN HOLE.
APPROVED BY AP (10/0)
Sea Hunt 207CC,Yam F150
Carolina Skiff (old school model)17’ Suz D50
quote:
Originally posted by Beaufort Boy
Fishmonger, I’m referring to the total square miles of all preferred SMZ’s from NC to Key West, not one in particular. See link below for Snapper/Grouper AP recommendations.
It’s well documented that certain snapper/grouper species travel long distances to spawn at very specific areas. Establishing large scale Area 51’s will not change that migratory pattern. I do agree that adding such habitat would be a huge plus for all bottom dwellers and I wish the Fed’s would partner with state agencies, fishing organizations, etc to establish them.
The entire conspiracy thing is nuts. There have been many many knowledgeable and reputable commercial fishermen, recreational fishermen, and scientists that have served as Council Members and Advisory Panel members since 1976.
Page 202 to page 208 or so
http://safmc.net/sites/default/files/meetings/pdf/Public%20Hearings%20&%20Scoping/08-2015/WEB_SGAm36PHVersion_080515.pdf
Snapper Grouper Advisory Panel
Comments and Recommendations
At their April 2015 meeting, the AP
approved the following motions:
MOTION: SUPPORT THE GEORGETOWN
HOLE AREA BUT NO LARGER THAN 3.1
SQUARE MILE AND ADD ALTERNATIVE
FOR AREA 51 AND 53. APPROVED BY AP
(10/0)
MOTION: COUNCIL CONSIDER AN AREA
ADDING TO THE NORTHERN SC MPA TO
THE SOUTH AND OFFSHORE TO BE
EVALUATED AS AN ALTERNATIVE TO
THE GEORGETOWN HOLE.
APPROVED BY AP (10/0)
Sea Hunt 207CC,Yam F150
Carolina Skiff (old school model)17’ Suz D50
What conspiracy? I have you documents straight from their website that says EXACTLY their intent. It talks about the "only solution". It talks about "public protest" and "how do we sell this to the public", etc... Read it...
As far as your spawning grounds… The “evidence” that you suggest goes something like this… "Hey guys, where
Beaufort Boy, from reading your posts, I can tell a few things about you… 1) Your work\study is related to the field of marine biology… 2) You are not specialized in study of the species in question so your work is in the “field”, but not with these species. 3) You drink any koolaid that anyone else in the field will sell you, and 4) You think other fishermen’s opinions are inferior to those in the “field”…
Did I sum it up good enough for you? SEDAR scientist are scientists, not engineers…
Dude, this is your chance… Same guys been driving this platform for 20+ years, same crappy results… Don’t fall inline with underperformance… Think outside of the box.
quote:
Originally posted by Beaufort Boy
I do agree that adding such habitat would be a huge plus for all bottom dwellers and I wish the Fed’s would partner with state agencies, fishing organizations, etc to establish them.
GREAT! Because it's a VALID solution to almost ANY problem of this nature. That's why Alabama catches 40% of the red snapper in the GOM with 8% of the coastline. That's why the current TAC in the GOM is 11M lbs when the MSY 150 years ago was < 2M lbs. Habitat = fish... They have acheived this WITHOUT MPA's...
One more thing to note… Shallow water group IS CLOSED DURING THE SPAWN…
These “Spawning SMZ’s” are not seasonal… They are MPA’s sold with a different label…
There is an agenda in place here, call it a conspiracy or what ever you want - but it exists. Just like global warming or cooling or what ever it is now - the professors, scientists cant get grant money if the results aren’t politically correct. . When you hear a fishery scientist express his worry about one species or another , he is really worried about his pay check, and where it will come from. There is NO science that shows that Warsaw’s or speckled hinds are endangered and NO science proves that GTH is a spawning site for any fish.
I was taught as a child to respect fishing laws because they were in place to protect the fish. Today the laws are in place (some) to appease the enviro groups . The existing MPA’s are “feel good” laws that the SAFMC established to make easy management , and to make PEW and EDF happy. NOTHING has been done within the MPA’s to improve or even survey the effectiveness and the fish within the thousands of square miles of closed ocean are not even counted in the biomass numbers We must draw the line somewhere. This is our opportunity. NO MORE MPA’S. These are not spawning MPA’s or they would be closures during spawning season only. They are in fact MPA’S that will be expanded upon in the future. Please write your elected official’s and make your comments to council. Also try to get official’s from states inland involved. They vacation along our coast and eat seafood in their restaurants. The massive burden of regulations has pushed the cost of quality seafood out of reach for many. What a shame.