While working along the bank today with my son, a couple of commerical crabbers showed up to pull up their pots which by the way run every 25yds all the way down the creek. They get to the pot near us and I see that they have several small flounder in the crab pot. The guy dumps the crabs out and takes the small 5" to 7" flounder stabs them, rolls them up and then crams them into the bait tube section of the pot. I guess it might have been four or five flounder. Is this illegal? It got me thinking, that if this is a part of his regular course of practice, then he is making a significant impact on the fishery of the creek. It would be easy for the DNR to catch this activity as all they would have to do is pull some of these pots and if there are undersized fish crammed in the bait section, Busted! Additionally, this guy had complete disregard to the DNR no wake buoys.
It’s not that hard to throw a cast net and get yourself some mullet or haden for your bait.
I wonder if DNR ever checks these pots for this kind of thing. I called the Operation Game Thief and the operator told me a DNR agent would be calling me. I hate to be a whistle blower, but their are too many of us out there catching and releasing undersized and many times legal fish to help our fishery.
If its flounder I would think it is illegal. Could be hogchokers which look like flounder until you get them up close, but don’t get as big. There are also a few other small species of flatfish that hang around that don’t get very large, small mouth and fringed. This should be investigated for sure though.
Hogchokers do not get more than about 5 or 6 inches long and are quite distinctive as they have orange and black striped back and are more round. I sure hope they were such, otherwise I hope he gets caught and fined or loses his license.
The law is tricky. It doesn’t say you can’t use undersized fish as bait. It just says you can’t possess them. You’d be surprised how much leeway that can buy someone.
leave the crabbers alone…tough as hell job, don’t make much money, and most of them are great guys that would help you out in a heartbeat. I know what you think you saw, but how do you know the flounder wasn’t already dead? all types of fish swim into those traps. Flounder doesn’t work well for bait because it is not oily. One shrimp boat and its nets make 100 times the impact of a crabber and all the giggers and fishermen put together, but where is the public outcry to end shrimping? Flounder stocks are not in any trouble.
.
intronetfishermansuperheros
NMFS = No More Fishing Season
“Back home we got a taxidermy man. He gonna have a heart attack when he see what I brung him”
quote:The law is tricky. It doesn't say you can't use undersized fish as bait. It just says you can't possess them. You'd be surprised how much leeway that can buy someone.
I think that since a crabber owns the pots, having a flounder in them (for bait) is possesion.
I agree that shrimpers are a much larger problem with bycatch, but everyone has a responsibility to obey the law and be a good steward of the resource.
those guys crabbing, face far more scrutiny from DNR than all of us. They have to have permits, tags, proper floats, escape rings, and don’t even let an agent start measuring crabs…watch any of the locals or mexicanos crabbing at the bote ramp or fishing peir, and EVERY crab goes in the bucket. It takes a lot of pot hauling to pay a $500 ticket, and most of those guys abide by the regs. Next time you are on the river, talk to those guys, or offer them a beer, it might even get you a bucket of Jimmies!
.
intronetfishermansuperheros
NMFS = No More Fishing Season
“Back home we got a taxidermy man. He gonna have a heart attack when he see what I brung him”
If you saw that I would be very surprised if it was one of our regular(local) crabbers…All the crabbers that I know use large frozen oily manhadden that is sold to them in “slabs” to bait their traps with…and in all my years crabbing with my dad I have never seen anyone use the fish sometimes caught in the pots as bait…I went crabbing with my dad today and we pulled 40 pots for 2 1/2 bushels crab…threw lots of undersized or “white” (means they have little meat and are very light when you pick them up…feel almost spongy if you press down on their shells) back over…we also had several fish (1 flounder the rest were small sheepshead) in pots and they were all released unharmed…crabbing is a tough way to make a living for sure…but I dont think small fish that are protected by regulations should be used in this or any manner by anyone
I think that since a crabber owns the pots, having a flounder in them (for bait) is possesion.
Do you think that or do you know that?
I can’t find where “possesion” is defined in the regulations.
No, possesion may not be defined in the regs which means it is somewhat debatable. However, I would not like to be the one to stand in front of a judge and debate the meaning of “possesion” when you and I know the intent of the law was broken.
I’m not bashing crabbers…I respect any person who makes a living on the water. I do believe that a vast majority follow the letter of the law. On the other hand there will always be a few who try to cheat a little. I just don’t believe laws apply differently for different people just because who they are or what they do.
I commercial crabbed for a few years in NC and I would catch some fish normally.
Most of the time, the flounder were legal sized and would be sold. In the event they were undersized, they went back.
They do not make very good bait, but they do work somewhat. If they are fresh, they last a bit longer than menhaden. I hardly ever used menhaden because they were twice the price of pinfish and croakers. Of course back then, the big boats were haul seining the sound and bays, so bycatch was cheap to buy
The fish I remember catching ranged from flounder, catfish and occasionally sheepshead when the pots were in the wrong spot (on oyster shells), but also remember catching quite a few spadefish and they made great bait. I can recall pulling a pot in that fought back! A flounder of 9.95 lbs tried to get in, but got stuck. That was a nice surprise as flounder that year was worth over $3 per pound.
Was the crabber you saw using flounder for bait? Who knows, maybe he was. Free bait helps his bottom line but I am sure he is not catching enough to make any difference in the local population.
leave the crabbers alone…tough as hell job, don’t make much money, and most of them are great guys that would help you out in a heartbeat. I know what you think you saw, but how do you know the flounder wasn’t already dead? all types of fish swim into those traps. Flounder doesn’t work well for bait because it is not oily. One shrimp boat and its nets make 100 times the impact of a crabber and all the giggers and fishermen put together, but where is the public outcry to end shrimping? Flounder stocks are not in any trouble.
.
intronetfishermansuperheros
NMFS = No More Fishing Season
“Back home we got a taxidermy man. He gonna have a heart attack when he see what I brung him”
I understand they may be poor and may be salt of the earth guys. Since I’ve been fishing this creek and Charleston waters for 47 years, I would think I could spot a live flounder from 5 yards. My eyes are not that bad, yet anyway. The issue I have, is that if this is a part of their regular course of baiting the 20 or so traps in that creek, then they are going to have a huge impact on the flounder fishery in this and adjacent creeks. I would help you out in a heartbeat as well and believe me, I know the meaning of hard work, should that excuse me from the law? From what I can tell about you just from reading your post over the past, you are the kind of guy who follows limits and laws and you seem like a good guy as well. Should you be excused from the law too? Anyway, not to beat a dead horse, but if this is illegal, then it should be checked into.
“The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.”
