quote:Yes. You would go to a tackle shop and buy a Loran-C unit just as you would a GPS now. I remember my father having a Si-Tex Koden Loran C 790 like this one:
Originally posted by btodagDid the average boater have a Loran system?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Koden-Si-Tex-Loran-Receiver-C-790-Untested-Parts-Repair-/370609421927
Note that absolute accuracy of Loran-C sucked. It is said to be between 0.1 to 0.25nm. However, “repeatable accuracy” from 60-300ft. What that means is, if you marked a spot on YOUR Loran and returned to it later, then the accuracy was fairly reasonable. However, if you got the #'s from somebody else and their unit was a bit different than yours, then you could be up to 0.25nm away from the spot. GPS is far superior.
GPS is even better today than it was when “Selective Availability” (pre year 2000) was used to purposefully degrade accuracy to 100 meters. It was actually Bill Clinton who signed an executive order to get SA shut off in 2000.
Yes, for sure the average offshore boater had LORAN 30 years ago. It was very inexpensive, relatively speaking. A cheap unit was only a couple hundred dollars, a really good one was under $1,000. About the same as today’s GPS, if you don’t count the difference in value of today’s dollar versus 30 years ago.
Speaking of the old days, I got a notice that NOAA was discontinuing paper charts April of next year [:0] Too expensive to print they say? That doesn’t seem safe to me, I’m old school and don’t go offshore or into unfamiliar areas inshore without a paper chart of the area. They will be available in electronic format only. Most of today’s boaters put way too much faith in electronics, which are great when they work, but can you find your way home from 50 miles offshore if your GPS craps out? I run dual GPS on my boat, but what if the GPS system itself craps out? When LORAN was still functioning I had both LORAN and GPS. On my charter boats I also had a RDF and carried a sextant and know how to use it, along with dividers and a parallel rule. How in heck can I plot LOPs without a paper chart? Get your charts now!
quote:
Why miss it?
Several reasons. Most of my best fishing numbers I’ve saved over the years are in TD format and none of the conversion programs are very accurate. Close, but not good enough to find the little spots. GPS being satellite based does not always function with heavy cloud cover and rain, like today, it sometimes looses signal in bad weather when you need it the most. LORAN being land based always worked better in the worst weather conditions. The repeatability of LORAN is better than GPS. I could reliably find and anchor on a 55 gallon drum with LORAN if the unit has been there before. The GPS has a little different accuracy every day. Some days it has 5’ accuracy, some days 500’.
I like
quote:
I remember my father having a Si-Tex Koden Loran C 790 like this one:
I’ve got 2 in my shop right now, very good Raytheon machines, anybody need a Loran unit?
Skineej, the difference between you and me is that you remember when your father had one and I was fishing offshore before LORAN C was even invented, I remember when it came available, best thing at the time since sliced bread 
We are spoiled today with great electronics, but I don’t like putting all my eggs in the same basket. Many offshore fishermen now use only one combo unit with GPS, electronic charts, depth and fish finder all in the same machine. If it goes out, you have no navigation capability, no charts, no depth, nothing. Not a good idea IMO.
Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats
“Ships are the nearest things to dreams that hands have ever made.” -Robert N. Rose
quote:I meant "why miss it if you don't have to?", but it seems that you don't place the same faith in accuracy of GPS as you do with LORAN.
Originally posted by Cracker LarryMost of my best fishing numbers I’ve saved over the years are in TD format and none of the conversion programs are very accurate. Close, but not good enough to find the little spots.
As far as conversions, many of us use them all of the time. I’ve converted several books already and the accuracy is as good as LORAN. Not sure what GPS you have, but mine is pretty accurate and have a 25’ sunken boat that I have been to a few times that the GPS takes me right to and it was originally a LORAN conversion.
Anyway, if you don’t feel that GPS is accurate, I guess that is another discussion, but many people in the Charleston area still have everything in LORAN-C TD’s and have their GPS to use it. Granted, it’s still using GPS behind the scenes, but at least they didn’t have to dump their preferred format.
I hear you on redundancy though. Redundancy is good.
quote:That doesn't mean your opinion is any more valid than mine. The accuracy of Loran and GPS are well documented and well understood by many government agencies. I know that you think you are the only one in the world who knows anything about fishing, but you are not. That is the difference between you and me - you have a bigger ego.
Originally posted by Cracker LarrySkineej, the difference between you and me is that you remember when your father had one and I was fishing offshore before LORAN C was even invented, I remember when it came available, best thing at the time since sliced bread
Repeatable accuracy is nice until your unit dies and you are back to finding all of your old spots again.
You might remember when a basketball was invented. Does that mean you can beat me in 1:1? No…
Your constant pulling of credentials means nothing. I was always warned about people who constantly refer to their “credentials”…
No, I’m not quite that old. And after hearing that you are 6’9 and half my age, no I wouldn’t challenge you in 1 on 1 either
Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats
“Ships are the nearest things to dreams that hands have ever made.” -Robert N. Rose
quote:Fair enough. I'm just trying to point out that you aren't the only one around here who has a passion for the ocean and who has learned something in the past 30 years.
Originally posted by Cracker LarryNo, I’m not quite that old. And after hearing that you are 6’9 and half my age, no I wouldn’t challenge you in 1 on 1 either
Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats“Ships are the nearest things to dreams that hands have ever made.” -Robert N. Rose
quote:
I know that you think you are the only one in the world who knows anything about fishing, but you are not. That is the difference between you and me - you have a bigger ego.
Right. I’ll bow to the expert and keep my opinions to myself from now on.
quote:
Repeatable accuracy is nice until your unit dies and you are back to finding all of your old spots again.
That’s why we always run 2 units:wink:
I’ve been doing it 60 years, not 30, what do I know.
Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats
“Ships are the nearest things to dreams that hands have ever made.” -Robert N. Rose
quote:This is exactly my point. I'm not the one that has a problem with an alternate opinion. YOU ARE! Every time someone challenges you, you pull credentials on them. You can't ever have a civil discussion without getting bent out of shape.
Originally posted by Cracker Larryquote:
I know that you think you are the only one in the world who knows anything about fishing, but you are not. That is the difference between you and me - you have a bigger ego.
Right. I’ll bow to the expert and keep my opinions to myself from now on.
Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats“Ships are the nearest things to dreams that hands have ever made.” -Robert N. Rose
But no Larry, you are right. You are the only one that knows how to catch a fish around here. You are the only one who knows anything about electronics and computers. You are the man. It must be tough to be you!
quote:That's a very odd mentality. I guess mathematically, you know twice as much as me since I really haven't had time to learn anything in 30 years. How much time do I need on the water before I can speak about the accuracy of GPS? You already said you don't know how to convert a coordinate to save your life? Some of us actually know how to do it... I know, I know... You are the master... If you don't know how, then I don't know how... Got it!!!
Originally posted by Cracker Larryquote:
I know that you think you are the only one in the world who knows anything about fishing, but you are not. That is the difference between you and me - you have a bigger ego.
Right. I’ll bow to the expert and keep my opinions to myself from now on. I’ve been doing it 60 years, not 30, what do I know.
Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats“Ships are the nearest things to dreams that hands have ever made.” -Robert N. Rose
I do enjoy rainy day discussions with you I sure don’t get bent out of shape over Internet discussions, and I’m sure no computer expert either.
It’s all good big guy
Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats
“Ships are the nearest things to dreams that hands have ever made.” -Robert N. Rose
quote:
You already said you don't know how to convert a coordinate to save your life?
Where did I say that? I know how, just not happy with the accuracy of it most of the time.
Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats
“Ships are the nearest things to dreams that hands have ever made.” -Robert N. Rose
quote:No problem. Maybe next time we can disagree on something and you don't get your feelings hurt. Sound good? You keep fishing your way and I will keep fishing my way.
Originally posted by Cracker LarryI do enjoy rainy day discussions with you
It’s all good big guy
Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats“Ships are the nearest things to dreams that hands have ever made.” -Robert N. Rose
But for the sake of people posting topics, I think that we should both be allowed to give an opinion if that is okay with you…
quote:Then maybe you aren't doing it right :wink:
Originally posted by Cracker Larryquote:
You already said you don't know how to convert a coordinate to save your life?
Where did I say that? I know how, just not happy with the accuracy of it most of the time.
Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats“Ships are the nearest things to dreams that hands have ever made.” -Robert N. Rose
Maybe it is entirely feasible that someone who has been on the water for 30 years has learned something that you did not.
Hurt feelings? Think I’ll go put on some popcorn now:smiley:
Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats
“Ships are the nearest things to dreams that hands have ever made.” -Robert N. Rose
This has turned into quite the conversation. We could come up with some actual solutions if there was this much interest in solving some problems like how to split south Florida from the SAFMC. I would actually like to see each state manage our fisheries and other natural resources out to 200 miles. The south Florida split or state by state quota allocations could be based on percentages of historical landings.
Freefish, that is some very large dreaming if you think that will possibly happen. I certainly admire your enthusiasm, ambitions and desires, and it makes perfect sense, but dealing with our government agencies is like herding cats, and good sense has no role.
I first got into the charter boat business in the 1970s and I attended every SAFMC public hearing within 100 miles of me from then until the mid 1990s. No matter what we had to say, no matter how much sense it made, we were never able to change a thing. The hearings consisted of them listening to our sound reasoning, ignoring it, and then us hearing what they were going to do in spite of it. The outcome was decided before the hearings, they aren’t interested in what we think. I got tired of fighting them, never won a round, but I wish you the best of luck
I suspect you may have an easier time solving the Iran nuclear problem than doing what you propose, but if you have the time and energy, go for it. I just don’t anymore.
You started this thread asking an impossible question to answer, sorry for the derailment.
quote:
Does anyone have any idea how many recreational boats are bottomfishing in federal waters out of SC?
To make that meaningful you would also have to know how many days a week or a year each boat fished. We could have 10,000 boats who fish 1 or 2 days a year, or 5000 boats fishing 10 days a year or 500 boats fishing 100 days a year, the pressure would be the same. How often would be more important than how many, because people who go often usually will catch more fish than those who don’t.
Anyway, good luck with your mission 
Edit: And speaking of herding cats, we can’t even get 2 fishermen to agree on whether LORAN was worth keeping, much less what we need to do about fishery laws They best solution that I see is voting t
freefish7, I think that the best thing a fisherman can do right now is to join an organization that has a voice in the process, and to give that organization as much financial support as they can. From what I can see, the CCA is well ahead of the pack at this stage in the game. I recently renewed my membership with them.
As Larry says, I do admire your passion and think that if focused in the right area, you can make a huge impact. That being said, I think we need to pick our battles. As I have said before, you aren’t going to get support from fishermen on 100’s of issues. You have to pick the MOST important issues to our fishery and put the effort there. I think what is important is coming up with a game plan that is agreed on with multiple people and then executing on that game plan as a team. Individual efforts actually lead to the cats going in different directions.
Also, please take a look at their latest press release:
https://www.joincca.org/articles/645
“State-based fishery management has proven to be far more effective than federal fisheries management in many fisheries and it would be highly productive to develop procedures for inter-jurisdictional coastal state management of marine species where appropriate and beneficial.”