New DNR Striper Rules

Fishing Clubs Midlands Striper Club
1

I received the following from Capt. Mike Glover, who is coordinating the “Wounded Warrior” Striper trip on July 13, which many of our Club member’s are participating in.

"In an earlier email I sent all the guides associated with July 13th troop fishing trip I attempted to address the NEW Lake Murray striper rules DNR put in place July 1, 2012. My interpretation of the new regulations dramatically differ from how DNR is currently administering the law. I have been informed by a number of reputable persons who fished this week that the rules are as follows (per the Game Wardens that issue warning tickets to them) :

  1. The maximum number of fish that may be caught is five (5) fish per angler. After a person has caught five fish they must discontinue fishing the duration of the trip. Keep the fish or throw them back does not matter - the individual is done fishing for the day. Every person on the boat must catch their own limit.

  2. A captain’s limit is not possible under the new rules (i.e., 5 fish count associated with the guide is now illegal). No other person(s) on boat can count fish historically we have associated with the captain. The captain must catch his or her on limit in order for fish to be considered legal.

  3. First offense - DNR is writing warning tickets. Second offense - tickets will be issued with fines attached (per DNR).

  4. Fisherman are not obligated to keep fish caught - they can be tossed back in the water; however, any / all fish thrown back must count towards a five fish limit.

  5. If multiple fish bite at one time which result in your boat being over the limit you will not be fined if the person catching the fish has not satisfied a five (5) fish limit and overage is immediately thrown back and all lines withdrawn from the water.

  6. DNR officers after heavily patrolling the lake during the first 30 days of the new rules. They are monitoring fishermen on the water using binoculars.

I have sent DNR a note asking for clarification of the new Lake Mur

2

Where can I find these new regulations? I’ve searched the DNR site and all I can get are the old regs. as follows:

“The Saluda River from Lake Greenwood Dam downstream to the Lake Murray Dam 5 fish per day and 21-inch minimum size limit. In Lake Murray during July and August, two of the five striped bass creel limit may be less than 21 inches.”

Any help is apreciated . Thanks, Bob

Bob Van Gundy
Marine Designs,Inc.
Custom Aluminum Fabrication
803-727-4069

3

Here is some guidance from the DNR website:

http://www.dnr.sc.gov/fishregs/pdf/PublicGuideChapter13.pdf

Here is the actual regulation: Look at Section 50-13-230(E) & (F)

http://www.scstatehouse.gov/sess119_2011-2012/bills/3864.htm

I will be catching my bait with the cast net tomorrow so I can release mine back to the lake before I leave. If you purchase bait, I guess you better know if they came from Lake Murray before you dump them back in Lake Murray after your trip.

I’ve spent about 85% of my life’s wages on fishing, the rest I just wasted…

4

Bob, you are right. The old regulation stated:
“The Saluda River from Lake Greenwood Dam downstream to the Lake Murray Dam 5 fish per day and 21-inch minimum size limit. In Lake Murray during July and August, two of the five striped bass creel limit may be less than 21 inches.”

The new regulation reads:
“On Lake Murray and the middle reach of the Saluda River it is unlawful to possess more than five striped bass a day. From June 1st through September 30th, it is unlawful to take, attempt to take, or possess more than five striped bass a day”

No where is the regulation does it state that ‘each angler’ is only allowed to catch 5 stripers per day. If that is the case why was this rule not enforced in this manner before now?

I was checked by DNR on Monday and everything checked out fine but I was confused by what the officer was telling me so I called DNR later and spoke to the dispatcher. He said he had been fielding calls all morning on this subject and he said they are enforcing the law as Mike stated earlier (each angler can only catch 5 stripers). As a guide, is it our responsibility to keep up with how many fish each of our clients catch and stop them after they reach 5 fish? If so will we be fined or is each angler responsible for their actions? I am afraid this will most likely end up being challenged in court. I hope it is not me but I plan to use common sense and abide by the law as it makes sense to me. I plan to use the aggregate number of allowable fish for the number of angers on my boat and quite fishing when that number is reached.

If you guys want to take your wife and kids fishing and want them to catch all the fish you will be fined according to the information I got from DNR. I heard of a guy that was ticketed on Sunday for just that reason. We as fishermen and Midland Striper Club as an organization need to question the interpretation of this law with DNR and our respective legislatures. I am sure this is not how this law was intended to be implemented so we need to challenge it

5

I practice catch & release(mainly because my wife won’t eat fish and won’t allow fish in the house). So the way I understand it, if I catch & release five stripers, I’m done for the day, right? (you noticed I said IF. lately, I could’nt catch a fish to save my life)
Like Captain Mike said, it’s going to negativly impact several small businesses especially bait & tackle shops. I does’nt seem like fishermen are going to purchase as much as they normally would.

Bob Van Gundy
Marine Designs,Inc.
Custom Aluminum Fabrication
803-727-4069

6

Wow. Clear as mud! Hate to say it, but I suspect that many will find that fishing during the summer around here will be more aggravation than its worth - thanks to this well-intentioned but tough to enforce/very burdensome law…which equals bad news for bait shops and other small businesses around here. On the flip side…Clark’s Hill bait shops might be an unintended beneficiary of this five and done deal on Murray. Looking forward to hearing more details at our next meeting.

Billy

—Team Pitt Crew–
Sailfish 236CC

7

What are the limits at Clarks Hill?
I actually like the law. It does a lot to decrease mortality rates in the summer months and I think in the long run that will be best for the lake and the club. I think this is about as close to the catch 5 and go home as we are gonna get.

8

In speaking with a DNR officer/friend of mine today I understand DNR will most likely be coming to our meeting next week to review the rules with the club.

If you read the new law it is designed around the “individual angler”. Therefore if you are an angler on a boat, (personal or guide boat) and you catch (or catch and release) 5 fish, you have completed your personal fishing trip. The others may continue fishing until their five fish limit has been met. If the captain catches five fish in the morning trip and goes out again that afternoon on another trip, then he has already completed his five fish catch that morning and cannot catch/count five additional fish in the afternoon. This ruling has not changed…

It will certainly be difficult for a DNR officer to just stop a boat and know who caught what fish. But he can count the fish and the fishermen. However if he sits off and watches an individual on a boat repeatedly catch or catch/release more than five fish, then that individual is subject to a fine.

Let’s not make this more difficult than it is… If I take some friends or family out for fun and each person catches five fish, then that’s a good day… And if I follow the rules and explain to the crew why we do not take more than five during these hot months, then I have done a service to the lake and to our club’s reputation.

We seem to get upset when Law enforcement doesn’t catch the guys with coolers full of fish, but then fuss when we don’t wish to follow the rules that protect our fisheries. Not that the rules may be perfect, but right now the fishing is getting better& bigger in size. Let’s do all we can to return this lake to a “great” Striper lake.

Happy fishing,
Van

VanMan

9

Van well said. We try to make fishing better in our waters but to some you can not please. We could have had the law as the lower Saluda has with no fishing for stripers. I think we should let this rule rest and move on.

10
quote:
Originally posted by Reality_Bites

Here is the actual regulation: Look at Section 50-13-230(E) & (F)
http://www.scstatehouse.gov/sess119_2011-2012/bills/3864.htm

(E) On Lake Murray and the middle reach of the Saluda River it is unlawful to possess more than five striped bass a day. From June first through September thirtieth, it is unlawful to take, attempt to take, or possess more than five striped bass a day.

The law is perfectly clear, and DNR is clearly violating it. From the actual law, definitions section:

(11) ‘Possess’ or ‘possession’ means to take and retain

(14) ‘Take’ means to catch, capture, gather, wound, kill, harvest, or remove, but does not include a catch and immediate release</font id=“blue”></font id=“size4”>.

You can’t violate section (E) by trying to catch fish or catching and releasing fish. Neither is “taking” by the definition in the same law that defines Section (E).

I’m 100% for responsible fishing. And I’m 100% against unlawful ticketing by DNR.

It won’t take long to either be straightened out by policy, legislation, or court. But in any case, DNR is violating the law with their current policy.

Hey, what do I know? I’m not attorney or policy wank. Just reading the law. If my interpretation is wrong, please help point out where/why. :smiley:

Tidewater 196DC
Yamaha F115

Pungo 120
11

We have DNR law enforcement officers lined up to talk about the new striper rules at our Midlands Striper Club meeting on Tuesday, July 10, at our regular monthly meeting at 7:00 PM. Come early if you want to eat. You do not have to be a member of MSC to attend this important meeting. The meeting is held in the back of the restaurant, so park behind the restaurant, and enter the back doors when you come.

The meeting is at Flight Deck Restaurant
109-A Old Chapin Road
Lexington, SC 29072
(803) 957-5990

You might want to try to attend this meeting to get answers from the horses mouth!

Rick

12

In the definition above of Take: “capture, gather, wound, or kill” are listed… I believe if we “attempt to take” more than five fish then the odds are many would be “captured, gathered, wounded, and or killed” in the process. I agree it is a fine line and will get clarified in the courts, but let’s focus on the intent of the law? “To minimize the stress on the number of fish caught in one day by any one angler, and then hauled to a boat through the thermal and low oxygen layers during hot months”. According to our biologists I believe they said once released many of these fish are trapped in the hotter layer above and may not penetrate the layer to cooler or more oxygenated water. It should be a good and informative meeting. Three months from now everyone will have forgotten it existed. I do feel for the bait and business owners affected, but if this lake doesn’t stay healthy, many like myself would quit Striper fishing totally. Especially with the fish in Thurmond and Cherokee. See Preacher Jerry’s recent post. I definitely enjoyed Cherokee last year…

VanMan

13

Van - you make great points. Well said and the spirit of this law makes sense. Maybe it’s just me - but June 1 thru Sept 30 seems to be a long time. I can understand July and August for sure but June seems to be a little much for 5 and done. That’s 4 months and bound to really hurt the bait guys. Who needs 6 dozen bait anymore? Just seems to be a lot of unintended consequences to this law. Can’t let a kid pull in your five allotted fish? That’s a little ridiculous if that’s truly the case. “Take one, make one” but don’t let them catch one of your five fish. I definitely need more info and I’m glad to hear we might have DNR representation at our next meeting to explain the rules in detail. It’s the law so we have to follow it. I’m sure there will be plenty of questions.

Billy

—Team Pitt Crew–
Sailfish 236CC

14

I went Tuesday by myself and only bought 2 dozen. As it turned out, I didn’t even need
8 bait and was done 30 minutes after I first dropped my rod(singular). I will buy 4 dozen if I’ve got a boat full. Otherwise, I may just troll or go to the Hill until October when I fish alone. To me, the fun is in the hunt for good fish-- not in harvesting any 5 and going home. These new regs. are certainly atlering summer break fishing.
While I think there can be some good to come out of the new law, I have never been a fan of the science behind it. I’m even less enthusiastic about fishing our lake over the next 3 months with the DNR’s micromangement… When out there, I will follow the rules.

15

Just so you all know, it has NEVER been legal for a guide or any other person to “donate” his or her creel to the others on a boat. This is NOT a new interpretation…it is just going to be enforced as part of the “5 & done” law.

We all need to be big boys and girls and put on our big boys and girls panties and realize this law was passed at our own urging and with our own knowledge. The ONLY reason it encompasses the month of June is because a Lake Murray guide, Mr. Randy Saliga, contacted his senator and those of us on the state-wide committee assigned the striped bass part of Chapter 13 were forced to compromise and encompass that whole month. Mr. Saliga wanted to be able to catch two undersized fish year-round.

It’s not difficult nor unclear. Catch 5, any size, and you’re done during hot summer months. No culling, no catch & release. We even discussed at a PAC meeting and at a full meeting that a public education program on the NEED for this law might be a good use for our funds raised for DNR.

Sorry to be curt and lees than cordial, but let’s remember how we got here in the first place…how much anger and frustration we all had about all the catch & release mortality of striped bass during summer…how we blamed a number of guides for improper release, etc.

We got what we wished for…and now I think we should “man up” and live with it.

16

Well put Jim. I agree that the law is pretty clear. 5 and done period. No culling and no additional catch and release.
Ever since it was announced that DNR would be at next Tuesday’s meeting I’ve been dreading the thought of sitting through a two hour debate over the interpretation of the term “attempt to take”. The law is what it is and DNR has informed us how they intend to enforce it. Like you said, we asked that something be done and they acted. As with any legislative action there is always going to be compromise and consequence and you’re never going to please everyone. Bottom line is we have to support what’s best for the fishery. If the fishery fails everyone looses. Guides, bait dealers, tackle shops, anglers - Everyone.

17

Jim,

I don’t have a problem with any part of the new law but the ‘5 fish per angler’ rule. (not real crazy about June but…) I look at this from a common sense perspective. DNR is understaffed as it is. To enforce this particular part of this law an officer is going to have watch a fishing boat from the time they start fishing till they quit. IMO a total waste of their time. I think their time would be better utilized patrolling the lake looking for reckless boaters/Jet-skiers, drunken boaters and assisting anyone in need. It would be much easier to just check a boat for the legal limit and be done with that. What does it matter who caught how many fish?

As a guide I find it at times difficult enough for me to keep all the rods baited, take the fish off my clients hooks and keep up with the total number of fish are caught. Now I am responsible to keep up with how many fish each angler catches. It just doesn’t make good sense. I am curious, when the state-wide committee was discussing this rule change, was it their intent for the rule to read ‘5 fish per angler’ literately or could this part have been misinterpreted when the law was written? Also, do you know if the ‘5 fish per person’ rule will be enforced the rest of the year (October - May). I have no problems following any rules or regulations but this part of this law just does not make sense.

18

Buddy…it’s always been illegal to allow others to take/catch your creel…it’s just never been tightly enforced. The law is plain. 5 fish (striped bass on Lake Murray) per person per day, (and also for all other species with set creel limits.) The fact that a guide lets his party take his creel as part of the boat count is, quite simply, a violation, admittedly one that does no significant harm. This is the same as if you & I were fun fishing and I caught seven and you three and we kept them…I would be the violator…whether today or ten years ago.

No matter how the code of laws affects us, we have to try and live by the letter as well as the “spirit” of the law. A charter captain does not like the federal mandate that breaking the plane of the transom with a billfish for photo ops is a violation, but they live with it. Although they will likely not admit it, I seriously doubt many DNR officers will scan the lake with binoculars day in and day out. There’s not enough budget for that anyway. I just would not come to the ramp with 15 fish if you are guiding a two man party. However…if you legitimately caught those 5 yourself, AND plan to keep them for yourself, no problem.

As far as June is concerned, thank Randy. It was totally his play to come back and disturb what he himself had ALREADY agreed to when sitting on the committee.

19

Points well-made and taken on both your posts Jim. I was unaware that it was illegal to give someone else onboard your creel. My response was in reply to Billy’s post concerning the impact on our baitmen. When fishing alone under these regs, you just don’t need much bait. I will, however, buy a decent amount when I have others with me on Murray. I can’t do what I used to do during summer break even though I think I did minimal to no damage with my release methods.

To satisfy my urge to hunt for bigger fish, I will troll big artificials when alone on the home waters or go to the Hill and maybe Hartwell with live bait.

I hope the changes are productive. I agree with one thing… It is time to “man up!”… It is what it is.

20

I agree with those who think the DNR interpretation is correct and is the way it should be. The law says it is illegal to TAKE, ATTEMPT TO TAKE, or POSSESS more than five striped bass a day.

The definition of TAKE in Bold Blue above is on the mark, but I do believe the ATTEMPT TO TAKE clause immediately following TAKE kicks the catch and release argument in the gonads.

I also believe hunting and fishing regulations are designed to protect the species by limiting what the individual licensee can do.

Tuesday night will be interesting