I wanted to post a couple things that can quickly bring you up to speed on what’s going on.
www.scmarine.org
www.joinrfa.com
Luke 8:22-25
OCEANA and other environmental groups are against exploration. Industry groups are for it. Some interesting things are going on because of the relationships between these groups in the past as they have dealt with fishery regulations, spatial planning, species protections, and, of course, fundraising and donating.
Understanding who is doing what, and why, is not ever going to be easy, but getting a basic understanding of what’s happening to-date isn’t hard at all.
In my opinion, the more info we have, the better. So here’s what I feel won’t overwhelm you guys but can educate you pretty quickly.
The explanation of the government’s decision to allow limited seismic testing for resources beneath our ocean’s floor is in this document. Only a couple pages.
http://www.boem.gov/BOEM-Science-Note-August-2014/
www.scmarine.org
www.joinrfa.com
Luke 8:22-25
This helps give you a map of where people are thus far re: this issue.
http://www.islandpacket.com/2014/09/01/3288754_sc-policymakers-push-ahead-for.html?sp=/99/257&rh=1
www.scmarine.org
www.joinrfa.com
Luke 8:22-25
A common theme I am seeing is that very few people have a good grasp on the facts, and there’s a lot of simple ideas and confusion out there.
I see this all the time when there’s a lot of money at stake in politics.
A mentor of mine used to explain it as a giant wagon wheel. The wheel turns all the time. The farther out, the faster the spin. The closer to the center, the slower the spin. How much easier is it to focus on the people or organizations near the center of the wheel than it is to focus on, i.e. try to understand, the faster moving parts on the outside of the spinning wheel?
To me, the things that don’t spin as fast are 1)the blackletter law and 2)personal, direct evidence that I see for myself.
I question everything else pretty intensely because it is suspect.
With that, I’ll leave you to know a little more about what’s coming and trust your own judgment about what to believe and not believe when you hear it or read it.
www.scmarine.org
www.joinrfa.com
Luke 8:22-25
I am all in on this idea…
This is a minor detail, but the wagon wheel analogy is backwards. Conservation of Angular Momentum. But I digress. Sorry.
quote:
Originally posted by OccamsRaiserThis is a minor detail, but the wagon wheel analogy is backwards. Conservation of Angular Momentum. But I digress. Sorry.
I should have explained better. The analogy is meant to teach that focusing on the outside movement makes it difficult to tell the relative direction of the overall wheel- and to have any effect on that direction. When you focus on the outside, there are more distractions to deal with, and you’re isolated from the rest of the wheel, quite literally.
Furthermore, the folks on the outside will normally try to fight you if you try to bypass them and go right to the center of the political wheel. Their job depends on chasing one another around in that big circle of confusion…
http://www.sustainablefishing.org/
www.joinrfa.com
Luke 8:22-25
I get it Phin. Well put. I just had to dork out on some physics for a second.
not sure it fits in…
they have been talking about wind farms as well for a long while… logistically from what i am told they would need a wind farm from fl to maine to create enough power to have it actually make any money… while they are big in france and stuff most are not actually working because it cost more to opperate than its worth… and they are bird ■■■■ killers… at best its a 20 year out plan in theory which means we wont see it till im dead…
the same guy who was telling us about wind farms was also talking about the oil… why we do have some pockets they are not big enough pockets to warrent a full on drilling project… most of the pockets are close but not close enough… this would require a system of drilling that is semi new where it runs out like veins from the tower thru various pockets. but again this is years out past my life time…
i would love to see some derriks off the coast.
the problems arise not from the exploration itself but rather all of the other garbage that follows the support infrastructure.
Who is against wind farms or oil rigs off our coast? I want to know.
Just think of the biomass those rigs would create. Yellowfin tuna? Sure why not. Billfish, grouper, ect, etc.
Oh what about an oil spill?
The gulf doesnt seem to be doing too bad…
Bring on the rigs.
I am against them unless they are well offshore of the continental shelf… I don’t really see the “fishing benefit” of an oil rig in 60’ of water which just destroys all of the natural live bottom there to replace it with a “biomass” of more king mackerel and barracuda, only to be decommissioned 30 years later and leave nothing but sand.
That being said, if they are offshore out in 1000’, then sure, that might be cool. Yeah, they are awesome in the GOM because there are literally 1000’s of them and the fishing pressure is spread out so much that there will be fish somewhere. But, yeah, if we get 30 of them here, they won’t be any better than our heavily pressured artificial reefs.
And wind farms? I don’t see the point. It takes 100+ of them to equal the power of a nuclear plant.
Oh and what if one day, they pass a law that says we can’t fish within 500’ of them for safety reasons? What then?
I may be wrong, but the PEAK output of 1 wind turbine would be about 3 megawatts.
One of the (Nuke) Units at Plant Vogtle in Ga. that came online in the 80’s puts out approx 1210 megawatts…continous, except when down briefly about every 18 months for refueling.
The 2 new units currently under construction there will kick out just over 1100 MW each.
Just my 2 cents.
NN
07, 23 Key West, Twin 115 Yammys
“Coastal Bound”
the east coast will never look like the GOM due to advances in drilling technology. they do not put up a jacket on every single well anymore. now they use mobile rigs that drill and move. the bottom structure they leave behind is quite nice. subsea trees and jumpers give up to 30’ vertical relief. pipelines along the bottom are often covered with a ridge of crushed rock to protect it in shallow water. there will have to be a few platforms for collecting and pumping, but not every 1/2 mile.
another thing to consider is that hydrocarbons are natural, as the yuppies would say “organic”.
Texas produces the most wind power in the US, something like 12,000 megawatts. Duke Energy just announced yesterday they are building a wind farm in Texas capable of powering 33,000 homes. It’s coming…
Sea Hunt 207CC,Yam F150
Carolina Skiff (old school model)17’ Suz D50
quote:
Originally posted by Beaufort BoyTexas produces the most wind power in the US, something like 12,000 megawatts. Duke Energy just announced yesterday they are building a wind farm in Texas capable of powering 33,000 homes. It’s coming.
</font id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”>Capable, yes, but when?? During peak usage? I am all for technology but you must have reliability as well.
I can go on in some detail regarding base loading generating plants vs. what they have to crank up to meet peaking demand (example, When skinny goes to his 12000 sq ft home in Charleston and turns all 8, 5 ton AC units at one time:smiley:).
Sorry Phin for getting sideways on your thread, but hey…Baracuda knows about this stuff…offshore drilling that is.
Carry on,
NN
07, 23 Key West, Twin 115 Yammys
“Coastal Bound”
BOEM article mostly talks about survey impacts - not too much real info there yet, but I guess everything starts somewhere. Still years out from any actual leasing and drilling, assuming they even find anything worth pursuing. But, I doubt so many companies would be interested if they didn’t think there was something there - those guys aren’t dumb…
quote:
Originally posted by Beaufort BoyTexas produces the most wind power in the US, something like 12,000 megawatts. Duke Energy just announced yesterday they are building a wind farm in Texas capable of powering 33,000 homes. It’s coming…
Sea Hunt 207CC,Yam F150
Carolina Skiff (old school model)17’ Suz D50
I know wind power sounds great to some, but I can’t imagine that anyone who has ever actually seen a wind farm is going to want one anywhere near them. I sure as hell wouldn’t. The TX farms are in the middle of nowhere, literally thousands of wind turbines over hundreds of square miles, and they ugly as hell. Not sure about now, but I believe initially they were heavily subsidized to make them financially attractive to energy companies. It’s a great way to appease the environmentalists (at least the ones who are willing to overlook the wholesale destruction of habitats to build foundation pads & maintenance access roads, and the birds that are killed by striking the blades…) but I don’t believe wind will ever have the capacity to support an industrialized society (ie, us.)
Oh, and Phin’s wagon wheel analogy is spot on… angular velocity is constant with position for a rotating rigid body, but the tangential velocity increases linearly with distance from the axis of rotation… 
Angler 204 FX
Yamaha 150
quote:Yeah, my numbers were off, but the point was still there. That being, it takes a LOT of wind turbines to equal one nuclear power plant.
Originally posted by DoubleNI may be wrong, but the PEAK output of 1 wind turbine would be about 3 megawatts.
One of the (Nuke) Units at Plant Vogtle in Ga. that came online in the 80’s puts out approx 1210 megawatts…continous, except when down briefly about every 18 months for refueling.
The 2 new units currently under construction there will kick out just over 1100 MW each.
Just my 2 cents.
NN
07, 23 Key West, Twin 115 Yammys
“Coastal Bound”
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080520021116AAM0ZEM
Not sure how accurate that article is, but it claims 240,000 acres (375 square miles) and 9,600 to 11,200 turbines (assuming the wind is blowing at 25% capacity), to equal one nuclear power plant.
Regardless of the actual numbers, it’s a LOT…
In my mind, the only person that benefits from a wind turbine is the guy that is contracted to build it…
Believe it or not, my vote is to keep buying oil from the middle east… WHAT DID HE JUST SAY??? Yes, let’s buy every last drop of it with our fiat currency until they run completely dry. Once they run out of oil, we will never hear from the middle east again. They will turn into Africa…
Bottom line, oil is CHEAP now compared to what it will be in 50 years. We absolutely do NOT want the middle east to be the only purveyor of oil 50 years from now. We want them to be sucked dry by then, buying our oil at 2065 prices. Let’s save our **** for a rainy day and buy it from them at today’s prices…
Nobody can honestly predict when what will happen because of several things. There are folks who will not let the natural macroeconomic supply and demand curve work for carbon energy; it benefits producers to manipulate supply, and they can easily do so because of vertical integration. Second, the subsidies that alter the pricing of alternative energy are not adopted by the government to satiate environmentalists. There’s a financial stake and motivation much more basic than green washing or fundraising of non-profits. Environmentalists like to take credit and put these jewels in their crowns, but the people responsible are those lobbying for the contractors building the alternative energy infrastructure and/or generation equipment itself. Third, the elasticity of the demand for alternative energy is constantly being manipulated. This is being done by all the above parties, believe it or not. It’s strikingly similar to what I see with federal fisheries regulation and the involved parties. It gets uglier the deeper you drill down folks. Organizations like PEW were created to influence public policy on behalf of corporate benefactors. There are grassroots and grasstops efforts being fertilized every day to appear to be things that they are not at all. A cottage industry of policy influencers became a monster that’s now running the country. Obamacare? Seriously? Who wrote it? The people who are making a financial windfall now. People turn their heads to things sometimes in desperation to make irrational promises come true. We’re left with the mess and lighter wallets. Quite simply though, all you have to do is follow the money in any of these cases. It’s easy to figure out how we got here and where we’ll be next year maybe, but it’s hard to predict where you’ll go on a truly long term basis. Politics doesn’t follow normal human time.
You won’t see alternative energy take the place of carbon energy until the price (per kW, mW, barrel, BTU, etc.) of alternative energy and carbon energy approach one another and the