As mentioned before… NC is still catching them… Even if they were only catching 10% of what they used to catch, why are we not still catching 10% of what we used to catch? They are statistically non-existent (0%) in SC. not 10%, ZERO PERCENT. Dolphin catches used to barely outnumber YFT tuna catches according to gov cup reports. Meanwhile, SC only catches about 1-2% of the dolphin on the East Coast. We barely have a toe into the fishery compared to NC and FL. It’s pretty feasible that if environmental conditions change slightly, it could take us out of the game. Tuna disappeared TOTALLY and BIRDS disappeared…
quote:Well that's the million dollar question. They are still catching them in the Abacos, the Nortwest Providence Channel, and NC, and northwards. You tell me why SC\GA are the ONLY states in that route not seeing them anymore?
Originally posted by poke saladthey are going somewhere,if they suddenly all changed migration, don’t think they wouldn’t be followed.you think they have changed migration pattern and no one has followed?
if they did happen to return,the yahoos fishing out there today will run right over every school,forget that.
Also, while you are at it, tell me why the sailfish bite has slowed for us, but is still red hot to the north and south of us… And tell me why the white marlin bite fell off in OI last year? I’m still waiting on that answer…
quote:
Originally posted by skinneejquote:
Originally posted by Bottom ScratcherLarry/Skinneej:
I totally agree with the assessment about foreign fishing practices. Too often (almost always from what I have experienced), the “sport” fishing groups do the most to try and abide by rules (some of these “rules” being ridiculous).
Many foreign registered vessels fishing in their own waters, or even in the “open” seas don’t seemingly follow any rules at all. I have also observed purse seiners from a certain country south of the US, dynamite albacore, & yellowtail, to turn the schools into their waiting nets. I used to own/operate a 65’ sportfisher from San Diego. Would sometimes take charters out 100 - 200 miles during the Albacore runs in July & August and more than once observed the practice.
Sickening is an accurate word.
Worse yet, on a dive charter to the Northern Channel Islands - specifically West Anacapa & East Santa Cruz Islands - a gill net strung over FOUR MILES LONG, between the two islands. After putting dive gear on, I observed all manner of marine wildlife, pelagic fish -(yellowtail tuna), sharks, a harbor seal, bottlenose dolphin, spinner dolphins, a pilot whale, even pelican’s caught in the illegal net.
No, IMHO sportfishermen do not generally cause these fish management issues (unless they use dynamite or gill nets).
When I later inquired of a local DFG (Department of Fish and Game) agent about the illegal gill net, he made a fascinating comment. He said “look, we only have enough resources (people & boats) to catch problems at the launch ramps or at the docks where the sportfishing boats tie up”. He (not me) said, our ability to monitor the problem is like having one policeman to monitor the crime in all of Los Angeles.
quote:
Tuna disappeared TOTALLY and BIRDS disappeared..
Birds are eating the bait scraps, they don’t eat tuna. If there is no bait, there is no birds and no tuna. So the base question is what happened to the bait?
Capt. Larry Teuton
912-six55-5674
lteuton at aol dot com
“Ships are the nearest things to dreams that hands have ever made.” -Robert N. Rose
quote:
Originally posted by shevyWhat kind of evidence would you like to see and more importantly how would you get said evidence. Just curious…mainly because its not a simple as setting up wildlife cameras and counting bears or wild deer etc on a 5000 mile migration route.
I’d like to see the federal government fork out 10 million bucks for satellite tags, and figure out how many of them land in seine nets in West Africa. If the fishery is that important to us, then it’s a small investment.
Also, I would like to see what evidence that they HAVE gathered to lead them to believe that the problem is in West Africa. I’ve heard this theory several times, but have yet to hear what they have done to validate this.
Also, I want to see them do a stomach content analysis on a few thousand yellowfins and see if that type of bait is any more or less abundant in SC.
quote:Exactly. That is what I was alluding to. Who is doing the bait analysis?
Originally posted by Cracker Larryquote:
Tuna disappeared TOTALLY and BIRDS disappeared..
Birds are eating the bait scraps, they don’t eat tuna. If there is no bait, there is no birds and no tuna. So the base question is what happened to the bait?
Capt. Larry Teuton
912-six55-5674
lteuton at aol dot com“Ships are the nearest things to dreams that hands have ever made.” -Robert N. Rose
quote:
Originally posted by skinneejquote:
Originally posted by shevyWhat kind of evidence would you like to see and more importantly how would you get said evidence. Just curious…mainly because its not a simple as setting up wildlife cameras and counting bears or wild deer etc on a 5000 mile migration route.
I’d like to see the federal government fork out 10 million bucks for satellite tags, and figure out how many of them land in seine nets in West Africa. If the fishery is that important to us, then it’s a small investment.
Also, I would like to see what evidence that they HAVE gathered to lead them to believe that the problem is in West Africa. I’ve heard this theory several times, but have yet to hear what they have done to validate this.
Also, I want to see them do a stomach content analysis on a few thousand yellowfins and see if that type of bait is any more or less abundant in SC.
I like the premise but you can’t expect these vessels, which many fish illegally, to be the nice guys are report their catches. Not going to happen so that won’t work.
quote:Satellite tags report themselves...
Originally posted by shevyI like the premise but you can’t expect these vessels, which many fish illegally, to be the nice guys are report their catches. Not going to happen so that won’t work.
I’m just saying… I remember when science was about gathering data and observing phenomenon in an objective manner, and not about which fisherman can you blame a missing fish on today…
ask a biologist,maybe one from SCDNR could tell you what they think about whites and sails.They have reclaimed a tag from a yellowfin tuna off Africa,he was tagged nine years earlier off Cat Island Bahamas.
I’m interested in disappearing tunas,right now commercial netting seems to be the likely culprit.The birds all followed the tunas,good by.
quote:
Originally posted by skinneejquote:Satellite tags report themselves...
Originally posted by shevyI like the premise but you can’t expect these vessels, which many fish illegally, to be the nice guys are report their catches. Not going to happen so that won’t work.
The tag will tell you the location but not what type of vessel. You would never know if it was a purse seiner or a couple of Africans in a rowboat.
I like your thought about the stomach research but in the end, does DNR really care about YFT off SC? Hope they do but probably not.
quote:The article was pretty clear. It says that they have been trying to get tissue samples for 5 years and only have 1 for YFT's. I'm not sure I count that as enough evidence to draw conclusions.
Originally posted by poke saladask a biologist,maybe one from SCDNR could tell you what they think about whites and sails.They have reclaimed a tag from a yellowfin tuna off Africa,he was tagged nine years earlier off Cat Island Bahamas.
I’m interested in disappearing tunas,right now commercial netting seems to be the likely culprit.The birds all followed the tunas,good by.
And I will ask them next time I speak to one (which I do occasionally).
I will agree with you that it is a “likely culprit” and definitely cannot be ruled out. But I am interested in seeing the process continue. There are a TON of purse seiners on the West Coast as well, and that population is said to be NOT overfished.
quote:But if a majority of the tags end up stopping in West Africa, does it matter what type of boat it is? That's something we could quantify later through statistics and observation.
Originally posted by shevyquote:
Originally posted by skinneejquote:Satellite tags report themselves...
Originally posted by shevyI like the premise but you can’t expect these vessels, which many fish illegally, to be the nice guys are report their catches. Not going to happen so that won’t work.
The tag will tell you the location but not what type of vessel. You would never know if it was a purse seiner or a couple of Africans in a rowboat.
I like your thought about the stomach research but in the end, does DNR really care about YFT off SC? Hope they do but probably not.
Fair question about SCDNR and yellowfins. Do they care? Yes, I am sure they do. Do they have enough grant money to perform a full investigation? Doubt it… Most of that research comes from grants. They do the best they can with that money, but they are on a very limited budget. Just remember, dolphin study has been going on for years and most of that research is done through private donations.
*PS, I would think NC would do the stomach content research since we don’t catch them here! They could easily get that data.
I bet more money was spent investigating OJ Simpson than there was investigating the disappearance of YFT.
quote:
Originally posted by skinneejI bet more money was spent investigating OJ Simpson than there was investigating the disappearance of YFT.
Ain’t that the truth . . . (pardon my English)
illigitimi non-carborundum . . .
I will guaran-(**()-tee you that commercial fishing is to blame in large part for the demise of the yellowfin tuna. You can wait for “science” until the last tuna is netted, but these dumb fish don’t stand a chance with the sophisticated commercial fleets that target them. And you ask about bait? That probably has something to do with it, too. But guess who targets baitfish, too? Yep, they’re commercially fished as well. Folks, the commercial guys have captured the regulators where necessary, and everywhere else they don’t need to b/c there ain’t no regulations or they can’t be enforced. And as to the West Coast tunas, just wait…they’ll be “overfished” soon enough. “Overfished” is just a label that we humans put on the fishery after the damage is done. We are incapable, for the most part, of precisely calculating the damage as it is being inflicted.
Next time you come in, come heavy, or not at all…
quote:Why would you assume that I don't? I take every chance I get. Many of them know my name from harassing them! :smiley: That being said, DNR does a pretty good job at local fisheries management. I think a LOT of our issues could be solved if we abolished federal fisheries management on MOST species and just had the states form their own coalition with all of the federal fisheries money going straight to the states. NOAA and NMFS really just piss away that 1 BILLION dollar a year budget right now. The states would do something productive, and unfortunately the "fight" is usually between the states and the feds.
Originally posted by shevyInstead of spending so much time only arguing to prove your points, with nothing productive coming out of it, maybe you should hook up with DNR and help them out?
It’s the federal government is where the jurisdiction is with tuna. We are talking YFT here, not redfish.
Let me sum up the problem with the feds for you… Do you know what your HMS permit even pays for? You know, the one that you are required to have by law to somehow help manage the fishery?
Well, let me show you what they say…
https://hmspermits.noaa.gov/faqs.asp
Q: What do I get when I pay for my permit?
A: Unlike many state permit programs, the permit fees go directly to the General Treasury and not to the managing agency (NMFS). The fee is set, in accordance with the procedures of the NOAA Finance Handbook, to recover the cost of administering the permit program, including maintenance of the public website and the toll-free phone system.</font id=“red”>
Think about that for a second… If that’s not a blatant example of squandering our money, I don’t know what is. The permit you pay for goes to administer the permit program!!! NOT THE FISHERY!!
quote:You would bet your family home that fishing off of West Africa is the reason that we don't catch YFT's in SC anymore?
Originally posted by WarblerI will guaran-(**()-tee you that commercial fishing is to blame in large part for the demise of the yellowfin tuna. You can wait for “science” until the last tuna is netted, but these dumb fish don’t stand a chance with the sophisticated commercial fleets that target them. And you ask about bait? That probably has something to do with it, too. But guess who targets baitfish, too? Yep, they’re commercially fished as well. Folks, the commercial guys have captured the regulators where necessary, and everywhere else they don’t need to b/c there ain’t no regulations or they can’t be enforced. And as to the West Coast tunas, just wait…they’ll be “overfished” soon enough. “Overfished” is just a label that we humans put on the fishery after the damage is done. We are incapable, for the most part, of precisely calculating the damage as it is being inflicted.
Next time you come in, come heavy, or not at all…
follow the bait…
in the late 90’2 and early 2000’s there would be large schools of small bait on the ledge, rain bait as it was called, acre plus schools…when is the last time you saw a school of bait like that? We would also catch swuid on sabikis at the richmond.
The bait disapeared first, the yellowfin became less prevalent and we were then chasing what few were left as they chased flyers. I remember those schools of bait, am I the only one??
Remember the contender out of georgetown that pulled into one of those bait balls to catch some with a bucket and the bait ran under the boat, the yft were hitting the bottom of the boat as they busted the bait, they freegaffed several…
follow the bait…
.