You’ve bottom fished with me twice I think… You had some other opporturtunities to catch gags with even better tackle than a 30wide okuma and 50lb high viz mono haven’t you? What happened? Where are those gags?
I must have missed it; how many did you say you’ve speared again?
Luke 8:22-25
First off sellsfish sorry for rabbit trailing your post. Good job again.
Phin, this is a game remember. We answer each others questions. Since you won’t answer mine I assume it is over. YOU LOOSE!
You are correct that picture was some time ago. Before we went fishing together.
I have fished with you and dove with Kent and Steven. Heck I have even trolled with Skinneej. Personally I would rather troll, dive, then bottom fish. As far as bringing home pounds of meat I feel confident that on any given day I could bring home more pounds bottomfishing, then diving, then trolling. For me personally I like all the prep work that goes into trolling, 10 rods, wide spread, top water, and team work.
I enjoy diving. Seeing the unknown, looking at bottom structure that I have only seen on the fishfinder, searching for lobster and hogfish, watching a dive buddy wrestle in a big one. I have done them all with some pretty good anglers. That is my preference. I know you are a bottom fishing guy but I think if you gave diving a shot it would help provide insight on where we are coming from.
Then again if we all liked the same thing, got all our rushes from the same place there would not be enough Contenders to go around.
Reputation is what people have come to think of you.
Character is the way you act when no one is around.
How many 3 day courses have you taken on learning how to anchor your boat? And how many weekends have you spent in Florida with an instructor practicing anchoring your boat?
Uhh… let me think… Yea, NONE!!
Reputation is what people have come to think of you.
Character is the way you act when no one is around.
And one more thing. I attribute ZERO skill to catching that fish. Acording to what you have taught me I did EVERYTHING wrong. From high vis low weight line, to low drag, to bill dance hookset, to drifting, to pumping the rod, etc.
Reputation is what people have come to think of you.
Character is the way you act when no one is around.
Scootin I know where you’re coming from, but you all fail to see how your attitude strikes those of us who put a lot of effort into bottom fishing when you come on a fishing forum talking about how easy it is to catch big grouper. Skinnee did it. Still does it- “first timers can catch gags” blah blah blah. Where’s the consistency? You have caught one gag on rod and reel and you’ve shot dozens. You won’t say that though. Nor will you say that it is easier for you to dive than bottom fish and that bottom fishing takes a skillset that you aren’t as good at for whatever reasons. Nor will you be honest here. Case in point is how you’ve said you’d get the most meat bottom fishing then trolling when you’ve bragged to me repeatedly about how you could put more lbs in the boat trolling than me and P1 could put in the boat bottom fishing. Which is it? Are you a better bottom fisherman than us or are you twisting your story to fit in here?
And gregmullet, please spare me the jabs and come up with a real argument…
You guys keep arguing the point that spearchuking ain’t easy. Well no duh. What gives you the right to act like bottom fishing’s easy? You get it?
Case in point is how you’ve said you’d get the most meat bottom fishing then trolling when you’ve bragged to me repeatedly about how you could put more lbs in the boat trolling than me and P1 could put in the boat bottom fishing. Which is it? Are you a better bottom fisherman than us or are you twisting your story to fit in here?
And gregmullet, please spare me the jabs and come up with a real argument…
You guys keep arguing the point that spearchuking ain’t easy. Well no duh. What gives you the right to act like bottom fishing’s easy? You get it?
Luke 8:22-25
I never said bottom fishing was easy. The act of reeling in the fish can be done by a novice. You are correct. The day we went out of GT and caught all those scamp is proof of that. Much like pulling the trigger on a spear gun is easy. It is the WORK and SKILL before the reeling and trigger pulling of both of these that is the challenge. Heck there are people that have caught blew marlin that can not rig a ballyhoo but does that make it easy??
As far as you and P1. The bet was aggregate weight of scamp, gags, and snapper vs aggregate weight tuna, wahoo, and dolphin. You may think that is a dumb bet but I will still honor it. Bottom fishing catches lots of BSB, porgies, etc. That is what I was referring too. My only point is to say that if you feel diving is much easier than bottomfishing I disagree. Come to the bottom with me some time I will show you first hand.
Reputation is what people have come to think of you.
Character is the way you act when no one is around.
I don’t think one is easier. What I know is that if I run the boat and put novice anglers over gags we won’t catch any or maybe one if we’re lucky. Now try and keep up with me here…
If I take novice speardivers and drop them on gags, they can kill as many as they want to shoot. It’s a fact from doing both these activities to the best of my ability repeatedly. The results speak for themselves. Best spearing trip I’ve been a part of took about an hour of diving. Best fishing trip I’ve been a part of to get the same amount of grouper took several hours. Spearing is more efficient. Scuba is much more dangerous. Fishing is not very dangerous. Diving requires a buoy dropped on the structure when you see it on the sonar and then swimming whichever way suits your fancy once you get down there- if you can see anything, that is. Fishing requires putting a boat over a parking space many fathoms below and hoping a fish will be hungry enough to fall for your trap. If it does fall for the trap, there may be only 2 seconds of time for you to shut the door on him. Or he may be over flat bottom where you can simply “reel” as you say.
You’re right. Maintaining control of your air, mask, buoyancy, gun, stringer, awareness of your surroundings and the fish you just shot through the head with a piece of steel is easy once you’re there. Just like controlling a fish that lives in caves and under rocks with a thin strand of elastic line and a rod and reel fighting blindly from above is easy once you’re there.
If I take novice speardivers and drop them on gags, they can kill as many as they want to shoot.
Luke 8:22-25
Do tell me of the “novice” scuba divers that you have taken that understand the effects of 100 foot depths on there bodies and equipment? That understand and can cope with the challenges of just swimming down and touching the bottom. Not to mention monitoring bottom times, safety stops, depressurization, cold temperatures, understanding dive computers, redundant regulators, and buoyancy control device, buddy awareness, etc. Now all that has to become second hand so you can focus on the hunt, loading your gun, making sure you are clear of any tangles when you fire, shot location, attack techniques, predator fish that want to eat your catch and sometimes you.
Phin, you can take a person with very little fishing know how bottom fishing, buy the bait, prep the boat, rig the rods, research the numbers, position the boat over the fish, bait their hook, drop it down so they don’t get a back lash, hand them the rod, tell them which way to turn the crank tell them how to hold the rod and work it, and if you have put them in the right spot and the fish are biting chances are by the end of the day that person will catch their first grouper.
Now is there any chance that I could do a similar crash course and send this same person to the bottom with a spear gun and tell them to bring me up a grouper???
Again I have been fishing with you. Come diving with me just once and lets have this debate again. Take the course this winter. You can borrow my gear till you get some of your own. Lets go!
Reputation is what people have come to think of you.
Character is the way you act when no one is around.
Phin…are your novice anglers using commercial gear?
One thing you keep forgetting is the 15 spearfishermen you know all learned directly or indirectly from commercial spearo’s. Have you noticed that we all use the same gun & shafts?
I see that once again…
Years and years of “soak time of baits and ease of fishing deeper water” is outweighed by the “right experience.” Yes. That totally explains how just a handful of spearos could have shot multiple gags and scamps larger than the state record rod and reel caught fish of each of those species…
How many folks and how much “soak time” is accounted for in the state record books I wonder…
Be careful. Either those divers have extremely huge horseshoes up their butts or they’re good. Good enough to best thousands of fishermen with chance, soak time, all the experience in the state and every bait you can think of though? It’s here that I grow tired of hearing how something is easier when folks want to kill big grouper.
Let’s start naming guys who fish and dive who have never even caught a legal gag on rod and reel but who’ve shot more than a few with a spear…
Not everyone chose to become a good spearo for the same reasons as skinnee I’m afraid. I think some just found a fast track to more meat.
Meanwhile what sellsfish and others accomplish is wrote off as something less than it really is… On a rod and reeling offshore forum no less!
Luke 8:22-25
Phin- Everyone knows you’re a talented fisherman. You cannot realistically compare the two. The inherent dangers associated with diving far outwiegh the beer drinking bathtub floating of fishing from a boat. I, for one, will and have admitted that I do not and will not gear up and swim down. It is just not in me. I think you should admit the same(or go do it). That is what this is about, no? You want people to think you’re as “good” as them. You’re not b/c it can’t be compared. As Greg1 eluded to, is Tiger Woods as good as A-Rod? Who can say. It is clear that you are one of the better bottom
Phin, you can take a person with very little fishing know how bottom fishing, buy the bait, prep the boat, rig the rods, research the numbers, position the boat over the fish, bait their hook, drop it down so they don’t get a back lash, hand them the rod, tell them which way to turn the crank tell them how to hold the rod and work it, and if you have put them in the right spot and the fish are biting chances are by the end of the day that person will catch their first grouper.
This is absolutely untrue when it comes to gag grouper.
How many bottom charters and/or trips have you set up or mated for to arrive at that conclusion?
I have dozens of such trips to point to when I say what I do about the difficulty of catching big grouper, especially gags.
Once again, you keep arguing that diving is not easy. That is agreed. What is NOT agreed is that bottom fishing is easy. You have seen people make it look easy, but you personally have gotten lucky catching one gag way off the bottom and a bunch of sub 10 lb scamps and a puddin head. When gags have bit your bait while I’ve watched, you’ve been unable to get them up.
You never mention that and keep downplaying fishermen’s accomplishments here.
I will always argue against this type of attitude from those of you who spear more than fish and especially those who only get big grouper and snapper with spears.
How many bandit reels do you think hadrell’s sold this year?
How many 113 senators do you think they’ve sold?
We divers use very BIG commercial grade guns. Most spearo’s around here would be using 38" JBL guns if it weren’t for the local commercial spearo’s telling us to buy the bigger guns right away.
Getting a gag off the bottom using a Penn 330 GTI or 4/0 senator is the same as shooting a gag w/ a 38" line gun.
Scootin,
You are a novice diver. Sorry to bruise your ego. Have you not heard of technical divers who stay under for 24 hrs at times? What about folks who go deeper than 300ft? I have a friend who has over 1000 dives in the last 10 years. He is an intermediate diver because to do more he would need training and equipment.
Greg,
I learned to fish from commercial fishermen. My grandfather and his buddies fished weekly and sold fish every time. One built a beach house with the money. And I dare say that P1 is a former commercial fisherman that I learned even more from. I do everything those folks and other professionals have taught me. Just like people copy the best divers, I’ve copied the best fishermen I’ve known. But isn’t mimicking tech divers harder than mimicking fishermen?
Your argument is shot again.
Courtland,
The issue is not that diving is easier. That is false. The issue is that a PIECE OF STEEL kills fish more easily than a hook and line.
Also, in your meager 2 years of fishing, how many trips has that been? I thought I read where you had thousands of safe hours on the ocean?
Why downplay your accomplishments? You have caught bigger fish than me… Apparently I suck. Apparently all the time I put into what I like doing is a waste. it’s absolutely no big deal to get a limit of grouper or snapper with rod and reel. You’ve got to risk your life to a greater degree and dive for them to have really done something.
Greg,
I learned to fish from commercial fishermen. My grandfather and his buddies fished weekly and sold fish every time. One built a beach house with the money. And I dare say that P1 is a former commercial fisherman that I learned even more from. I do everything those folks and other professionals have taught me. Just like people copy the best divers, I’ve copied the best fishermen I’ve known. But isn’t mimicking tech divers harder than mimicking fishermen?
Your argument is shot again.
Now let’s not split hairs over this, but by commercial fishermen I mean people who have actually done it successfully for their lively hood. Not people who have sold fish from time to time to make ends meet.
I don’t know of ANY dive boat around here that has gotten their limit of red snapper in the past 4 years that I have been diving… How many times have you done it Phin?
How many bandit reels do you think hadrell’s sold this year?
How many 113 senators do you think they’ve sold?
We divers use very BIG commercial grade guns. Most spearo’s around here would be using 38" JBL guns if it weren’t for the local commercial spearo’s telling us to buy the bigger guns right away.
Getting a gag off the bottom using a Penn 330 GTI or 4/0 senator is the same as shooting a gag w/ a 38" line gun.
I use, from strongest to weakest gear:
Avet 30WTRX quad with 70lbs drag and 200lb line.
Penn 113HN with 80lb line.
Other avets and spinning reels with 65lb or heavier line.
Please see the electric reel shown in sellsfish’s picture and ask him what line test is on it.
Interesting that you mentioned local tackle shops. They do not even sell the reels and line that I use because not many people will buy this more expensive stuff…
I walk into the dive shop in mt p, and what types of guns and shafts will I see? What’s the status quo for bottom tackle in charleston? What’s the status quo for spearguns?
My avet trx reel or sell’s precision auto reel cost more than your speargun and the hollow braid on my reel cost more than 3 of your shafts.
You see where I’m coming from?
Not saying fishing is harder… Just calling bs on how you all think of your sport compared to fishing.
I don’t know of ANY dive boat around here that has gotten their limit of red snapper in the past 4 years that I have been diving… How many times have you done it Phin?
This goes down like a deflated bc as well. The two ars you shot in one dive this fall weighed more than the total weight of any 8 ars that any boat I’ve ever run or been on have weighed. That’s TWO snapper… You shot in one dive… Compared to the best 4 people could do when I was involved.
How many bandit reels do you think hadrell’s sold this year?
How many 113 senators do you think they’ve sold?
We divers use very BIG commercial grade guns. Most spearo’s around here would be using 38" JBL guns if it weren’t for the local commercial spearo’s telling us to buy the bigger guns right away.
Getting a gag off the bottom using a Penn 330 GTI or 4/0 senator is the same as shooting a gag w/ a 38" line gun.
I use, from strongest to weakest gear:
Avet 30WTRX quad with 70lbs drag and 200lb line.
Penn 113HN with 80lb line.
Other avets and spinning reels with 65lb or heavier line.
Please see the electric reel shown in sellsfish’s picture and ask him what line test is on it.
Interesting that you mentioned local tackle shops. They do not even sell the reels and line that I use because not many people will buy this more expensive stuff…
I walk into the dive shop in mt p, and what types of guns and shafts will I see? What’s the status quo for bottom tackle in charleston? What’s the status quo for spearguns?
My avet trx reel or sell’s precision auto reel cost more than your speargun and the hollow braid on my reel cost more than 3 of your shafts.
You see where I’m coming from?
Not saying fishing is harder… Just calling bs on how you all think of your sport compared to fishing.
Luke 8:22-25
Wait wait wait. The only reason I’m involved is because you have repeated implied that spearing was easier. You keep mentioning novice spearo’s etc. e
