I think you’re on to something Fred,makes sense to me.
quote:
Originally posted by Fred67quote:
Originally posted by smanI agree with everything you said bang,great post
I do too.
One thing that I do see is a DNR presence. I’ve been checked many times and also have had them ask to see what I’ve caught at the landing. Maybe I just time it different? or fish in different areas.
I still think we need to go back to earlier posts and discover the reason for the decline in juveniles.
I don’t think the decline is from fishing pressure.</font id=“red”> Until we know what’s really going on more governmental limits are not the cure, but a patch.
Many go back to catch and release. I think no one should purposely target the Big Breeders for any reason. Just one big Breeder dead from a bad release or good release and bad stress during the catch is a possible loss of 2,000,000 eggs a season.
I can guarantee that many caught around the jetties and dynamight hole (just to name a couple of places everyone knows about) have fallen victim to shark predation after being released and while being caught.</font id=“red”> Just because one swims away doesn’t mean it’s regained enough energy to be fast enough for the trained sharks in those areas. We have pictures of this right here with smiling faces photoing it. Don’t think it doesn’t happen. Dang things are just to easy to catch and too many people catching them for a silly photo op. Shut it down for a couple of years and lets see what happens.
Isn’t this</font id=“red”> a form of “fishing pressure”? With the incr
I think you guys read something into my post that ain’t there.
I never said anything about my personal opinion on loading up on red fish. I was only making the point that those that do it, unlike what sman said, whether we like it or not, DO have that “right” as long as they are within legal limits and have a valid license…legal right anyway. That’s all.
I did keep 7 in 2017, but typically release them all, so the creel change wouldn’t directly affect my fishing habits. I would even be OK with a total ban for a year or 2, but I don’t fish them near as much as others and that sounds like a pretty drastic step considering, in the opinion of others who are much more informed, that the data just aren’t there to justify it. Especially since there are so many guides and shops that would be hurt financially.
It seems like there could be a lot of compromises though to cut back on the number of fish harvested, yet still allow fishing.
One that I have thought about and have never seen mentioned that I believe would cut back on the number of fish caught would be to have at least for part of the year, a season where only artificial baits can be used? Guess it would also have to change for trout at the same time, but that may be a good thing.
Also, maybe limit the number of fish you can catch even if you are only C&R? And if you do keep fish you are done once you have a legal limit in the boat. Obviously hard to enforce, but it’s been working on Murray. During the summer months the striper size limit is not in effect. You can catch 5 per person and you’re done. It depends a lot on the honesty of the fishermen, but most regs do. The outlaws are going to do what they want regardless.
'07 198 DLX Carolina Skiff
DF90 Suzuki
As Bang has asked, why does it matter how far you travel to harvest any animal in the state? I harvest stripers from Murray and rainbow trout from the upstate which are 3 and 4 hour drives respectively. If I knew there were serious population declines in either species, I would want to make it better for my kids and hopefully grand kids with responsible harvests.We as anglers must find as much common ground as possible to protect the resource. As for as the redfish population:
- First a population decline has to be proven, not just speculated. This information needs to be confirmed not only by biologists but from the fishermen who spend the most time on the water in different areas throughout the state. Both juvenile populations AND adult populations need to be taken into consideration, but obviously with adult populations, it will be more difficult to gain accurate estimates.
- Determine the cause(s) of the decline. Overfishing, poaching, environmental, over predation, etc.
- Devise a plan to bring stocks back up. This is incredibly simplified, I know, but legislators are skipping steps 1 and 2 and going to a limit change(3) for a quick fix. The message to the angler is that there is too much fishing pressure on juveniles; therefore, tighter limits will solve the problem. They could be correct, but I have already given a situation in a part of the state where redfish just VACATE the inhabitable flats after year 1 of their lives. These flats previously had an equal distribution of 1-5 year olds. I’m on the water 200 days a year, and I can state with 100% confidence that it is not from angling pressure.
I’m willing to put together a committee comprised of anglers/guides who are deemed experts in their respective areas to have a direct voice to our legislators. Some anglers specifically target juveniles while others target offshore adults; Some do both. I know lots of guides and anglers from all over the state who are on the water 50+ plus days per year or have decades of experience on previous/current r
quote:
Originally posted by bangstickquote:
Originally posted by Fred67quote:
Originally posted by smanI agree with everything you said bang,great post
I do too.
One thing that I do see is a DNR presence. I’ve been checked many times and also have had them ask to see what I’ve caught at the landing. Maybe I just time it different? or fish in different areas.
I still think we need to go back to earlier posts and discover the reason for the decline in juveniles.
I don’t think the decline is from fishing pressure.</font id=“red”> Until we know what’s really going on more governmental limits are not the cure, but a patch.
Many go back to catch and release. I think no one should purposely target the Big Breeders for any reason. Just one big Breeder dead from a bad release or good release and bad stress during the catch is a possible loss of 2,000,000 eggs a season.
I can guarantee that many caught around the jetties and dynamight hole (just to name a couple of places everyone knows about) have fallen victim to shark predation after being released and while being caught.</font id=“red”> Just because one swims away doesn’t mean it’s regained enough energy to be fast enough for the trained sharks in those areas. We have pictures of this right here with smiling faces photoing it. Don’t think it doesn’t happen. Dang things are just to easy to catch and too many people catching them for a silly photo op. Shut it down for a couple of years and lets see what happens.
<hr heig
Targeting any fish is a form of fishing pressure.
Also, what does fishing for meat have to do with anything?
“…be a man and PM me.”
I’m sure people may disagree with me however I really do believe charter boats are a significant problem that never seems to be addressed. Not only are they killing(even if releasing) our fish for money all week instead of on days off, but everyone knows they are dialed in and go clean out their spots.
14’ Carolina Skiff
19’ Sea Pro
quote:
Originally posted by bangstickTargeting any fish is a form of fishing pressure.
Also, what does fishing for meat have to do with anything?
“…be a man and PM me.”
I did say I agreed with you. ----------------------
Some would argue that fishing for meat is more detrimental than fishing to catch and release. If I’m fishing inshore to catch a mess to eat, I don’t think it is as harmful as the masses going to the jetties (and other popular areas) and specifically targeting Breeder Spot Tail day after day.
I feel that me catching a realistic 8- 12 a year to eat is not as bad as those that go out every weather permitting day and bring 30-60 to the boat to be released. I guarantee more than 8-12 die from the “experience” of Catch and release in a years time of this practice.
This is a conversation that would be better face to face, no pm.
People think Spot tail are in so much danger, let’s just shut it down for a couple of years. I personally don’t see the decline, but I’m not on the water day after day. I’ve never had an issue finding a couple to take home.
quote:
Originally posted by in the grassI’m sure people may disagree with me however I really do believe charter boats are a significant problem that never seems to be addressed. Not only are they killing(even if releasing) our fish for money all week instead of on days off, but everyone knows they are dialed in and go clean out their spots.
14’ Carolina Skiff
19’ Sea Pro
It’s not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing with you because everyone that fishes for and catches fish has an impact on the resource. That said, there are considerably more recreational fishermen on the water everyday than charter boats. Also, charter boats don’t “clean out their spots.” Otherwise, they’d run out of spots to catch fish and would therefore have to seek employment elsewhere. Truth be known, recreational anglers are more likely to “clean out their spots” than charter boats. Again, for charter boats, doing so would not be good for the longevity of their business.
“…be a man and PM me.”
Well most guides obey the laws, I would like to think. If you follow the laws all that can be blamed is the laws. Poachers, illegal trappers and game theifs that’s the the stuff I don’t like or respect. A thief is a thief to me. Stealing is a cowards crime. I use to fish a set of rocks at folly beach and have fun with the puppy drum. One day this whiting fisher seen me putting it on them and next time I went there he was there with a bucket full of 9 inch reds. It was a foggy cold morning and he laughed and told me I’ve been keeping fish like this for 50 years and laughed again and said they sit in the truck in this weather. I almost never caught a Red there again. It used to be a red almost every cast on that spot.
quote:
Originally posted by Fred67quote:
Originally posted by bangstickTargeting any fish is a form of fishing pressure.
Also, what does fishing for meat have to do with anything?
“…be a man and PM me.”
I did say I agreed with you. ----------------------
Some would argue that fishing for meat is more detrimental than fishing to catch and release. If I’m fishing inshore to catch a mess to eat, I don’t think it is as harmful as the masses going to the jetties (and other popular areas) and specifically targeting Breeder Spot Tail day after day.
I feel that me catching a realistic 8- 12 a year to eat is not as bad as those that go out every weather permitting day and bring 30-60 to the boat to be released. I guarantee more than 8-12 die from the “experience” of Catch and release in a years time of this practice.
This is a conversation that would be better face to face, no pm.
People think Spot tail are in so much danger, let’s just shut it down for a couple of years. I personally don’t see the decline, but I’m not on the water day after day. I’ve never had an issue finding a couple to take home.
Fred, from previous threads, I’m relatively familiar with your stance on chasing/catching breeder reds and I’m relatively familiar with the opposition of your opinion on the subject. Personally, I believe the impacts of one side of that argument are understated and the other side is overstated and the truth is somewhere in the middle. but just like you, that’s just my opinion.
Thanks for the “no PM” nod. 
“…be a man and PM me.”
When I was a kid (60 plus years ago) all the fishing my dad did was for meat! He obeyed the laws, what little there were, along with, I bet 95 % of the other guys out doing the same thing. Today the economy is a lot different and unlike the gulls, we don’t have to fish to eat! My family would rather eat the cheaper red meat any way.I know people that think to justify the cost of fishing they must keep all they catch. All that said, I don’t think over catching has a lot to do with what we are looking at with the decline of the reds today. I’m with Ron on finding people in the public fishing community to reserch this! This should be a project for all fisherman.
quote:. Why didn’t you call Ogt?
Originally posted by 40inchredsWell most guides obey the laws, I would like to think. If you follow the laws all that can be blamed is the laws. Poachers, illegal trappers and game theifs that’s the the stuff I don’t like or respect. A thief is a thief to me. Stealing is a cowards crime. I use to fish a set of rocks at folly beach and have fun with the puppy drum. One day this whiting fisher seen me putting it on them and next time I went there he was there with a bucket full of 9 inch reds. It was a foggy cold morning and he laughed and told me I’ve been keeping fish like this for 50 years and laughed again and said they sit in the truck in this weather. I almost never caught a Red there again. It used to be a red almost every cast on that spot.
quote:
Originally posted by bangstickquote:
Originally posted by in the grassI’m sure people may disagree with me however I really do believe charter boats are a significant problem that never seems to be addressed. Not only are they killing(even if releasing) our fish for money all week instead of on days off, but everyone knows they are dialed in and go clean out their spots.
14’ Carolina Skiff
19’ Sea Pro
It’s not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing with you because everyone that fishes for and catches fish has an impact on the resource. That said, there are considerably more recreational fishermen on the water everyday than charter boats. Also, charter boats don’t “clean out their spots.” Otherwise, they’d run out of spots to catch fish and would therefore have to seek employment elsewhere. Truth be known, recreational anglers are more likely to “clean out their spots” than charter boats. Again, for charter boats, doing so would not be good for the longevity of their business.
“…be a man and PM me.”
I agree.
Just for the record I was talking about recreational fisherman finding the fish because of the charter boats and cleaning them out. People either see the charter boats and go try those spots or book a charter and remember/record where and what they did. It’s a lot easier to find the gold when you have the map.
14’ Carolina Skiff
19’ Sea Pro
Touche’
“…be a man and PM me.”
quote:
Originally posted by 40inchredsWell most guides obey the laws, I would like to think. If you follow the laws all that can be blamed is the laws. Poachers, illegal trappers and game theifs that’s the the stuff I don’t like or respect. A thief is a thief to me. Stealing is a cowards crime. I use to fish a set of rocks at folly beach and have fun with the puppy drum. One day this whiting fisher seen me putting it on them and next time I went there he was there with a bucket full of 9 inch reds. It was a foggy cold morning and he laughed and told me I’ve been keeping fish like this for 50 years and laughed again and said they sit in the truck in this weather. I almost never caught a Red there again. It used to be a red almost every cast on that spot.
“If you follow the laws all that can be blamed is the laws.” That’s kinda the point. I can catch and release as many breeder red fish as I want, but I know some will die so I don’t. If your making a living doing this you do it anyway. Just follow some guides on facebook and you can see it.
14’ Carolina Skiff
19’ Sea Pro
quote:
Originally posted by in the grassI can catch and release as many breeder red fish as I want, but I know some will die so I don’t.</font id=“blue”> If your making a living doing this you do it anyway. Just follow some guides on facebook and you can see it.
You sound like a true conservative. While so many others are just possers.
And there is my rub, money and greed clouds people’s respect for our natural resources. Always has and probably always will. Many of the guides are getting smart to the pic posting thing and rarely if ever show the true nature of many paying customers stupidly hugging or shoving fingers up gills. They just go with it in the hopes of a repeat customer.
From my observation the past couple of seasons, seems like they are spot on with the reg. change. We caught a bunch of slot Reds in the surf. Most were in the 17"-21" range with some being just at or slightly over.
Maybe everyone is thinking the change is to protect a struggling resource…or are they shifting the focus to the majority?
I just don’t see the need for more restrictive regulations. I’ve caught fish every year almost every time I go and I don’t see a trend down in Red Drum. What I do see is more boats! I see more people on the water but not too many catching fish. Sharks… definitely up; many more over the years. Has anyone considered predator fish in relation to the Red Drum variations? I agree that we need more work on the stats. But I also am very tired of DNR, SAFMC and CCA making work for themselves at my expense and having to spend my time writing people and making phone calls to make sure there is a fair government in place. A bag limit of 5 with a bigger slot is not going to impact Red Drum if DNR would spend the time checking and fining offenders. What we need is more DNR LEO’s out on the water and landings. And, I eat EVERY FISH I keep myself. Unfortunately I run out often.
Capt. Garry Coats
Folly Beach & CHS
@DolphinChartersSC
When I was a kid duck hunting in TX, certain types of ducks were worth a certain amount of points. Once you harvested an amount equal to 100 points, you had to stop shooting. Teal were 10 points, whereas a canvasback was worth 100 points. I think mallards were 30 points. It seemed a decent way to protect the less plentiful species and allow more leeway on the more plentiful ones. I think this could work with fish as well. While redfish stocks are low, they could be worth maybe 70 points. Flounder and trout, maybe 30 points; whiting, maybe 10 points. You get the idea. This way we can allow a bigger take on the plentiful species and restrict the struggling ones. And it discourages “coolering out”.
“You don’t have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body.” - C.S. Lewis