First off in no way I am saying catch and release is a bad thing. I think it is necessary if we are going to enjoy recreational fishing like we do now in coming decades. However, is it just me or do you other guys notice it seems harder than it used to be to catch larger, quality fish? I can remember about 20 years ago fishing in the harbor, jetties, etc. it was not hard to catch large sheeps, large black drum, large reds, etc. A double drop bottom rig with cut shrimp got you anything and everything you could ever want. Fish seem to be much more elusive now than before and new techniques, the latest and greatest artificial lure, etc. seem to almost be necessary to catch quality fish consistently anymore. Even live bait doesn’t seem as effective. Think about it: If a fish has been caught 8 times in the last year on a live shrimp, live mullet, blue crab, and menhaden it will probably avoid these bait fish for the rest of its life. A new lure is something it has never seen before and will probably bite it just out of curiosity. Back in the day when fish were caught and went straight in the cooler they didn’t have time to evolve and learn what to eat and what to avoid. Compare offshore bottom fishing to inshore fishing: Most bottom fish that are caught offshore go straight in the cooler unless they are undersized or out of season. A piece of cut squid will get you quality fish just as easy as anything else. Now if 70% of fisherman used cut squid as the bait of choice and caught and released 90% of what they caught, how long would it take to see cut squid no longer being effective at catching larger, quality fish? I could be totally wrong here but it just seems like fish used to be so much easier to catch before than now. Not saying its a bad thing because we sure don’t want to deplete our resource, just seems like perhaps the last 10 years or so of an overall shift towards catch and release practices has caused them to evolve and become more cautious and skeptical of what they eat making fish that have been caught a
Fish have to eat… Last redfish we caught had a circle hook hanging out of his anus… Fish also have short lifespans… I don’t think your theory has much merit to be honest… Your problems with catching large fish is probably a symptom of overfishing, not overreleasing…
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Originally posted by skinneejYour problems with catching large fish is probably a symptom of overfishing, not overreleasing…
^^^^^^ This 100%
Boat drinks, Waitress I need 2 more boat drinks!
I think a fish that was released is more likely to bite than a fish that was eaten 
Your theory is likely correct. Fish certainly have the capacity to learn but at the same time I doubt they abandon eating any live bait. Reds would die if they stopped eating fm, mm, and shrimp. However I used to be a largemouth slayer as a kid. I filled the pond by my house by raiding the whole neighborhood. After it was full I could catch LM’s but not many because they saw my lures too often. Eventually even live bait would sometimes just get stared down. But the other ponds that rotated through remained productive despite likely having much fewer fish.
I would guess the population increase (human) has had an impact too.
First, Most, Biggest
I think ‘tougher’ fishing is probably a combination of several things but most likely the simple fact that there’s a lot more boats on the water, a lot more hooks in the water and a lot more ‘things’ in the fish’s environment if that area happens to be easy to access (the jetties, nearshore reef, CHS 60, etc).
Whether it’s boat traffic or whatever, fish are going to probably move away from an area where there’s a lot of human intrusion. That’s why fish in the Charleston area are probably a little ‘smarter’ than fish in some of the remote areas between here and Jacksonville. Or, there’s simply fewer of them because they’ve found areas where there’s less noise that’s not natural to them.
But then again, fish only do 3 things: eat, try to avoid being eaten and make baby fish.
So if a red comes across a stray finger mullet or nice plump shrimp, he’s likely going to hammer it out of instinct regardless of anything else.
2014 Key West 203DFS
1987 Landau
I agree with the other comments. Also IMO, you’re over thinking this.
Dead fish can’t be caught again, so C & R has a lot of merit. I have no problem with keeping fish either, and sometimes do, but only when legal & only what I can use at one time. There are fish I don’t keep regardless of seasons or catch limits as I prefer to release them.
You also don’t seem to be taking all the other variables into consideration. I remember how the fishing was 50 years ago, and in some ways it’s better now, not so good in others. There are a lot more people now, more angler’s, more pollution, etc, etc. The demand on the available fish stocks is higher now than is was.
Also, take into consideration the politics of fish management. Too many people wanting to catch too little numbers of fish, and even though the consensus should be stop the taking of some now, it’s wait & see because the public wants to catch fish. Add into the equation the problem of poaching.
You’re giving the fish too much credit too. Sure some may “learn” from the experience of being caught too many times, but doubtful they retain that for very long. Going back to what has already been said, they still have to eat, and they’re not going to avoid what nature tells them is food.
Releasing fish, and particularly the larger ones that spawn & sustain the populations is not a bad thing. Allowing the fisheries managers & biologists we pay to do a job to actually do their job without all the politics would be a much better way to go IMO.
I agree with skinee, over fishing due to many more boats/people on the water is why the fish aren’t jumping in the boat anymore. Also fish are not stupid but still have limited intelligence, they still have to eat. I have also caught fish with a hook still in their mouth. ( I think I have caught the same “mother in law fish” multiple times in one sitting. I saw my hook marks in it! )
2005 Sea Hunt 212 Triton
“Head East”
This is a very interesting thread with many good points being made. The redfish are not here in the numbers they used to be, period. Keeper sheeps are getting tougher to catch. LMB do evolve and pass on (somehow) negative stimuli to certain lure actions. It’s what keeps the lure market evolving. Redfish, however, can only be harvested for little more than 2 years out of their 30-40 year lifespan. A HUGE percentage is caught on live bait, and they won’t ever turn down the right live bait when they are feeding. Therefor, I don’t believe reds are outsmarting you while using live bait and artificial techniques haven’t changed that much from 25 years ago. More fishermen after fewer fish is the reason IMO, but I have no theory yet as to why the reds aren’t repopulating our inshore waters like they have in the past. As stated by me several times, my areas get very little fishing pressure (relatively), and I don’t blame recreational fishing for the juvenile redfish population crash over the past 6 years. I wish someone would figure it out as fishing is TOUGH right now.
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Originally posted by RADDADDYLMB do evolve and pass on (somehow) negative stimuli to certain lure actions. It’s what keeps the lure market evolving.
</font id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”>New lures come on the market constantly to catch fishermen.
You can still catch plenty of LMB on a purple worm and reds on a lead head jig and white curly tail grub
Boat drinks, Waitress I need 2 more boat drinks!
I blame 400 friggin guides in Charleston
I’m kidding.
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Originally posted by PeaPodI blame 400 friggin guides in Charleston
Does everything you post have to be smartazz and slapstick? Doesn’t your son guide, or fish for money or something?
Sure they will, just like every other lure made, but that doesn’t mean they are the most effective lures you can throw at any given time. Fishing is constantly evolving on public waters no matter what the species.
So… to summarize what I have learned on CF in these last few months. Temperature gauges and scents are useless, and new lures/techniques are a marketing ploy. Good stuff! I wonder why those rookie BASS guys weren’t throwing a purple worm this past weekend?
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Originally posted by Too Busyquote:
Originally posted by RADDADDYLMB do evolve and pass on (somehow) negative stimuli to certain lure actions. It’s what keeps the lure market evolving.
</font id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”>New lures come on the market constantly to catch fishermen.
You can still catch plenty of LMB on a purple worm and reds on a lead head jig and white curly tail grub
Boat drinks, Waitress I need 2 more boat drinks!
I like the idea of some catch and release, what bugs me are the people that brag about catching 60+ reds and not keeping one single fish. Just don’t get it? No way are all 60 going to live. I also don’t understand the sport of purposely targeting Large breeder reds just to release them. Kind of like sail fishing. Don’t get me wrong, have at it, it’s just not for me as I age and don’t see the sport in wearing a fish out bringing it to the boat, taking a pic, and letting it go. If I’m going to put that much effort into it, I want to eat it.
Some of the cons I see in new fishermen is a strange thing for me as a new dad takes his son/daughter fishing but never brings one home to clean and at least let his children decide if they like it or not. No way could I have ever gotten away with not cleaning and cooking fish for my kids growing up. Hope to do the same for my grands.
Back more on topic fishboy, I don’t think a fish is really that smart. When they are hungry they don’t give a rip if they have been caught before or what bait they were caught with. Catch the right time and they’ll eat a chicken bone… really… at least a cobia will.
“If Bruce Jenner can keep his wiener and be called a woman, I can keep my firearms and be considered disarmed.”
Thanks for the replies. I do understand that overfishing, human sprawl, and pollution absolutely effect the quality of fishing. It’s just that it seems in the past 7-10 years I am having to put more effort and work into it than before. Seems like quality fish were just easier to catch and hit just about anything you offered back in the day.
However, no one has really commented on the comparison to offshore bottom fishing. For the most part when those fish are caught they go straight in the cooler. No one fishes for sea bass, triggers, and vermillions for sport. We all know these fish will eat just about anything you offer them even bare hooks sometimes. It is really the easiest fishing there is and you can catch so much at a time you can get tired of catching. Now what if people all of sudden starting fishing for them for sport and started releasing 90% of the bottom fish they catch? do you think 10-15 years down the road they will still be just as stupid and bite bare hooks, cut squid, and Oscar Meyer hot dogs?
quote:Kids these days have it easy.
Originally posted by Hoppyquote:
Originally posted by PeaPodI blame 400 friggin guides in Charleston
Does everything you post have to be smartazz and slapstick? Doesn’t your son guide, or fish for money or something?
’
Down here is where a signature goes but they can confuse and anger some people so I don’t have one.
C&R would only increase the catchable numbers for bottom fish like others have said. They have to eat! I used the redfish scenario to give insight to ANY fish that can be readily caught on live/cut bait. They don’t get too smart for the real deal. More fishermen going after less fish equals tougher fishing that requires refining your patterns, locations, and techniques. You are not getting outsmarted.
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Originally posted by fishboyThanks for the replies. I do understand that overfishing, human sprawl, and pollution absolutely effect the quality of fishing. It’s just that it seems in the past 7-10 years I am having to put more effort and work into it than before. Seems like quality fish were just easier to catch and hit just about anything you offered back in the day.
However, no one has really commented on the comparison to offshore bottom fishing. For the most part when those fish are caught they go straight in the cooler. No one fishes for sea bass, triggers, and vermillions for sport. We all know these fish will eat just about anything you offer them even bare hooks sometimes. It is really the easiest fishing there is and you can catch so much at a time you can get tired of catching. Now what if people all of sudden starting fishing for them for sport and started releasing 90% of the bottom fish they catch? do you think 10-15 years down the road they will still be just as stupid and bite bare hooks, cut squid, and Oscar Meyer hot dogs?
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Originally posted by fishboyNow what if people all of sudden starting fishing for them for sport and started releasing 90% of the bottom fish they catch? do you think 10-15 years down the road they will still be just as stupid and bite bare hooks, cut squid, and Oscar Meyer hot dogs?
I’d take a guess and say yes. Especially BSB. When a fish is hungry it gets stupider. Kind of like a buck in rut.
“If Bruce Jenner can keep his wiener and be called a woman, I can keep my firearms and be considered disarmed.”
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I like the idea of some catch and release, what bugs me are the people that brag about catching 60+ reds and not keeping one single fish. Just don't get it? No way are all 60 going to live.
I resemble that remark, that’s my style [:I] I treat my fish gentle when I release them and I’m pretty sure most of them live. More so than if I put 10 in the cooler anyway.
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No way could I have ever gotten away with not cleaning and cooking fish for my kids growing up. Hope to do the same for my grands.
Same here, and I grew up the same way. My mamma used to sing a little song when we brought home fish…Fishy fishy in the brook, daddy caught him with a hook. Mamma fried it in the pan and Larry ate it like a man:smiley: My wife picked it up and sang it to our son when he was young.
Times have changed since the 1950s and 60s, we kept and ate everything we caught back then. Now I seldom keep a fish unless it is gut hooked or gill damaged, but I enjoy catching them, so that’s what I do
I do think some of yall are giving the fish credit for more brains than they actually have. As many have said, fish got to eat every day and I know I’ve caught the same fish multiple times.
Capt. Larry Teuton
Swamp Worshiper