Honestly, it doesn't matter though. You guys still can't get people to stop posting pictures of themselves holding sailfish illegally in the boat. So, it really doesn't matter what other advice we give anyway...
When is the last time the sailfish limits changed?
My point wasn’t about the species. It was more that if you can’t even talk someone to not post incriminating evidence of themselves, then this whole discussion is moot…
I can give an argument for why I want the SAFMC to know that I caught more red snapper than grouper, bsb, red porgies, grunts, combined. Heck, we caught more red snapper than vermilion. We had to change tactics and move to avoid them. I want them to know this. But if you don’t see how it’s ridiculous to post for someone to say that they caught 20 and all of them floated off, then there is nothing I can say to change your mind.
I am not asking you to change my mind or your mind. I personally have not read reports of 20 dead snapper floating off. I could very well have missed them, no doubt.
I hear you. But it’s not pure hearsay… They have done several studies on it. The topic of release mortality with red snappers is the CENTER of the issue. One side has a peer reviewed study in their hand that says release mortalityis 50%. The other side has a peer reviewed study that says that it’s 15%. Now, the only question is which study to believe. SAFMC argues that you have to use the most conservative one to be on the safe side. THe other side says that the most conservative one is junk science. Let’s say it came down to a judge. What other empirical or circumstantial evidence might you consider when deciding which study is correct to use? Maybe a stack of fishing reports printed out on 8x11? Or if you were trying to convince someone that they were wrong about using the 50% study, it sure doesn’t help your argument talking about a trail of dead fish behind your boat.
I hear you. But it’s not pure hearsay… They have done several studies on it. The topic of release mortality with red snappers is the CENTER of the issue. One side has a peer reviewed study in their hand that says release mortalityis 50%. The other side has a peer reviewed study that says that it’s 15%. Now, the only question is which study to believe. SAFMC argues that you have to use the most conservative one to be on the safe side. THe other side says that the most conservative one is junk science. Let’s say it came down to a judge. What other empirical or circumstantial evidence might you consider when deciding which study is correct to use? Maybe a stack of fishing reports printed out on 8x11? Or if you were trying to convince someone that they were wrong about using the 50% study, it sure doesn’t help your argument talking about a trail of dead fish behind your boat.
So to be clich?, it’s a bit of a catch 22.
If it is 50% mortality and you catch 30 fish, whether you say floater or not- in their mind 15 are dead.
If you only catch 6 fish and 3 are now dead(500% less death)- based on their math the biomass is too small because you only caught 6 fish.
If we post nothing- no one knows if there were any caught or if any died or if there are even any fish in the ocean.
Does this theory hold true for any other species or just snapper because of the supposed mortality?
The mortality rate has a lot to do with how many cudas and sharks are hanging around the boat. Some days you have to reel like heck to get a fish up before something else eats them. Then you decide if it’s a legal keeper or throw it back. They don’t do well getting back to the bottom when there are many critters waiting to eat a stressed released fish. Not always the case, but often.
No matter if you put them in the cooler or feed the barracuda with them, they are gone either way. If the predators follow them all the way up, they follow them down too. I reckon the cuda population is doing very well. If me saying that half of my releases get eaten by cudas and sharks before they get back to the bottom changes the laws, then so be it. It is what it is.
Personally, it makes me sick feeding snapper and grouper to the cudas and sharks. I won’t do it, doubt if it’s legal, but what I do if the predators are bad is put all the fish intended for release in a 50 gallon live well, let them recover a while, then take them off a distance and release them where it’s safe. I probably don’t want to get caught with a live well full of red snapper and short grouper, but it’s a lot better for the fish and I’ll tell that to the jury if necessary.
I have always just wondered what anybody, not just you got out of posting?
Helping others out with the hope they will do the same. That’s why I post offshore reports. We have to go a really long way to fish for the pelagic which is why think people are willing to share Intel.
The bottom line is, no matter what, those socialist bastards are going to do what the heck they want to in pushing their agenda. Folks, you best take things to a new level.
The mortality rate has a lot to do with how many cudas and sharks are hanging around the boat. Some days you have to reel like heck to get a fish up before something else eats them. Then you decide if it’s a legal keeper or throw it back. They don’t do well getting back to the bottom when there are many critters waiting to eat a stressed released fish. Not always the case, but often.
No matter if you put them in the cooler or feed the barracuda with them, they are gone either way. If the predators follow them all the way up, they follow them down too. I reckon the cuda population is doing very well. If me saying that half of my releases get eaten by cudas and sharks before they get back to the bottom changes the laws, then so be it. It is what it is.
Personally, it makes me sick feeding snapper and grouper to the cudas and sharks. I won’t do it, doubt if it’s legal, but what I do if the predators are bad is put all the fish intended for release in a 50 gallon live well, let them recover a while, then take them off a distance and release them where it’s safe. I probably don’t want to get caught with a live well full of red snapper and short grouper, but it’s a lot better for the fish and I’ll tell that to the jury if necessary.
Capt. Larry Teuton
Swamp Worshiper
Exactly the kind of speculative posts that hurt us. I don't know where you fish (I'm sure it happens more in the GOM), but I know bottom fishermen that have been bottom fishing for 10-15 years and have never seen a release get eaten by a dolphin. I've been bottom fishing quite a bit, and I remember 2 days where I have had catch eaten by dolphin and number of times cudas were a problem I can count on one hand. Cudas do sometimes show up in the dog days of summer, but the problem you spe
Did I even mention dolphins? I’ve never had a dolphin problem, just sharks and cudas. I solve it with a livewell. Works for me, works for the fish. Also helps with barotrauma. Been doing it almost 60 years. Probably caught a lot more fish than the scientists doing the surveys.
It’s not speculative and i don’t see how it could possibly hurt to tell it like it is.
So you’re saying that your fishing reports are OK to post…
quote:50 Triggerfish
25 Vermillion (footballs)
30+ Red snapper (released)
1 AJ
3 white grunts
5 red porgy
12 BSB with some more released
3 Gag Grouper (1 on R&R)
1 Scamp Grouper
1 Alpha hogfish (15lbs)
6 lobsters (up to 13lbs
Or that you don’t have bycatch mortality but the rest of us mortals do? That seems a little greedy, but why is your report OK and not ours? You exempting yourself from your rule?
So you’re saying that your fishing reports are OK to post…
quote:50 Triggerfish
25 Vermillion (footballs)
30+ Red snapper (released)
1 AJ
3 white grunts
5 red porgy
12 BSB with some more released
3 Gag Grouper (1 on R&R)
1 Scamp Grouper
1 Alpha hogfish (15lbs)
6 lobsters (up to 13lbs
That seems a little greedy, but why is that OK and not ours? You exempting yourself from your rule?
Capt. Larry Teuton
Swamp Worshiper
I'm not sure why I am not getting through... The red snapper issue has ZERO to do with how many bag limits of vermillion I fill. It has EVERYTHING TO DO with RELEASE MORTALITY... I will say it again, "RELEASE MORTALITY", *RELEASE MORTALITY*, one more time... r-e-l-e-a-s-e m-o-r-t-a-l-i-t-y... Basically if you are out there fishing for black sea bass, whether you catch them or not, the feds are assuming that you have a floating trail of red snapper behind the boat. PERIOD... Notice that we still have a season on triggers, vermillion, etc. We do NOT have one on RED SNAPPER... And it's because of their ***ASSUMPTIONS**** (you know, the assumptions that you are giving them credibility for) about RELEASE MORTALITY...
Anyway, this has nothing to do with “greed”. Just for the record, I kept 1 gag for myself and 1 lobster tail. I cleaned the gag, kept enough for one dinner and vacuum sealed the rest for my retired mother. If that is what you consider “greedy”, then I am guilty. But I seem to remember you posting a limit of 20+ red grouper in the gulf in a fish box with no ice on it just last year… You are welcome to come look in my
So you released 30 red snapper and none of them died? Right.
And yes, I put 20 grouper in a cooler, it was the legal limit, and the fish were plenty cold. So what?
Capt. Larry Teuton
Swamp Worshiper
So what? By your definition, that is "greedy"... You brought that up, not me... Double standard??? It's okay when you keep 20 grouper, but not me???
I already said how many of them floated off… The rest rocketed back down to the bottom and will live. I’m not posting 100% mortality rate due to barracudas.
So you released 30 red snapper and none of them died? Right.
And yes, I put 20 grouper in a cooler, it was the legal limit, and the fish were plenty cold. So what?
You are not getting through to me because I don’t see you following your own rules. Does that not get through?
Luv ya though, and I know you’re a heck of a good fisherman too!
Capt. Larry Teuton
Swamp Worshiper
Larry, I take NO issue with you. Love you too man, but I am indeed following my own rules. The feds need to know that there are millions of red snapper out there. What they do not need to hear is speculation about high release mortality rates. The only thing they need to hear is that fishermen are learning to handle these fish properly and that mortality rates are falling close to zero... That's the ONLY thing that will re-open red snapper for any meaningful period of time.
quote: What they do not need to hear is speculation about high release mortality rates.
That’s why I use the live well. Much less mortality. I know that’s a fact. And yes, I fish a lot in the GOM and sharks are a much larger problem there than here. We usually can’t catch more than a few fish before we have to move.
quote: What they do not need to hear is speculation about high release mortality rates.
That’s why I use the live well. Much less mortality. I know that’s a fact. And yes, I fish a lot in the GOM and sharks are a much larger problem there than here. We usually can’t catch more than a few fish before we have to move.
Capt. Larry Teuton
Swamp Worshiper
You are in a small percentage. Most people do not use this technique and the feds have no way to enforce or measure this technique. And that's why it's important to focus on release mortality as a whole. And, they wouldn't "accept" this or give us credit back towards release mortality until they could do a peer reviewed study to prove it's effectiveness...
quote:You are in a small percentage. Most people do not use this technique and the feds have no way to enforce or measure this technique. And that's why it's important to focus on release mortality as a whole. And, they wouldn't "accept" this or give us credit back towards release mortality until they could do a peer reviewed study to prove it's effectiveness..
I’ve proved it to myself enough times to convince me that it is better for the fish survival. If it takes the college boys who have made “several” studies on “several boats” about 30 more years of fishing to agree, OK, but I’m not waiting on them to do a pier review study. Jeez, I’d be dead before they finished it.
We all have to do what we feel is right and responsible, and I’ll kill absolutely nothing more than necessary. Some bycatch death is inevitable in any kind of fishing, but we can reduce it a lot by how we handle and release fish. That’s the bottom line. Fish responsibly. Fishermen are usually well ahead of the law makers in knowing what is best for the fish. They have the most to lose.
How many Broad River cobia reports did you see this spring?
quote:You are in a small percentage. Most people do not use this technique and the feds have no way to enforce or measure this technique. And that's why it's important to focus on release mortality as a whole. And, they wouldn't "accept" this or give us credit back towards release mortality until they could do a peer reviewed study to prove it's effectiveness..
I’ve proved it to myself enough times to convince me that it is better for the fish survival. If it takes the college boys who have made “several” studies on “several boats” about 30 more years of fishing to agree, OK, but I’m not waiting on them to do a pier review study. Jeez, I’d be dead before they finished it.
We all have to do what we feel is right and responsible, and I’ll kill absolutely nothing more than necessary. Some bycatch death is inevitable in any kind of fishing, but we can reduce it a lot by how we handle and release fish. That’s the bottom line. Fish responsibly. Fishermen are usually well ahead of the law makers in knowing what is best for the fish. They have the most to lose.
How many Broad River cobia reports did you see this spring?
Capt. Larry Teuton
Swamp Worshiper
I'm not saying what you are doing is not productive. I'm not disagreeing that we should all be responsible. All I am saying is that you are not the one writing the seasons or laws about snapper fishing and unless you convince them about the baitwell technique, it's not going to weigh into their decision about re-opening them up for harvest.