anybody heard anything about who won the Yeti for dropping off the snapper carcass with DNR?
The Morris Island Lighthouse www.savethelight.org
Guy from Beaufort. Robert Wiggers picked up the cooler yesterday for him.
How many were checked? Could not have been many, she was angry my friend(s)!
fish today work tomorrow
We ended up getting 43 fish for sampling.
Robert
43 fish for the sampling, not bad. Has anyone seen any data that estimates the number of ARS caught in our short, very short season? Or did the SAFMC miss another opportunity to collect data?
A wise man once said “Do as I say not as I do” Good advice when I tell you that.
I wouldn’t want them to get that data. They’ll take # fish sampled and divide it by the total number of boaters in Charleston. Boom they’re endangered.
They probably counted trailers at the ramp, multiplied by three for average number of boaters and assumed 100% success and multiplied by three again for good measure to count off the ACL.
That’s not really what they are doing. They are taking biological data from the fish (i.e. - age, sex, etc.) The red snapper argument has never been about #'s. If it was about #'s, fishermen would have won that argument a long time ago. The FEDS are saying that the average age caught is not old enough. When it comes down to it, at one point the SAFMC was saying that red snapper was NOT undergoing overfishing. Then they found 3 fish that were older than the age of 50. Once that happened, it boosted their expectations that if fish lived to be 50+, then surely we must be catching a ton of 20 year old fish, 30 year old fish, and 40 year old fish.
Unfortunately, they don’t understand simple statistics and statistical sampling. The red snapper population has undergone an explosion in the last 5-10 years. Some years, the population has doubled in size. They say, “Oh, but when we catch a 1000 fish, only a few percentage of them are older than 30 years old”. Well DUH!!! That’s what happens when a population explosion happens. If the fish double in size for a few years, then statistically younger fish will be caught. It’s because there are more of them around and after 2 years they breed and produce even more. What we are seeing in the numbers is a skyrocketing of the population (i.e. exponential growth). Look SAFMC, if the population of fish DOUBLES in 1 year, then 50% of the fish sampled the next year would be new recruits. Basic math…
But they are interpreting this data like they would look at hogfish numbers in South Florida. In South Florida, everything get’s killed as soon as it’s legal size. Thus, when they look at the sampling of the fish stock, they see a data skew towards younger fish. It’s because all of the older fish have been killed. It’s a fairly similar looking graph when you plot it out, but for entirely different reasons.
So, these graphs have a similar fingerprint, but can only be interpreted correctly from someone who also uses the eyewitness accounts from people on the w
I was actually kidding, but that’s interesting. I wonder if they also take into the account that younger fish are typically more voracious/stupid/easier to catch
quote:Honestly, I don't think it really matters. They try to use "fishery dependent" data and "fishery independent" data. The former is fish catch (i.e. - biased based on what people are catching and turning in). Fishery independent data would be them doing something like video taping a live bottom and doing fish counts. Unfortunately, you can't tell a red snapper's age by his size. They tend to max out in length around 12 years old. You can't really tell their age for sure unless you pull out their ear bones.
Originally posted by EdistodanielI was actually kidding, but that’s interesting. I wonder if they also take into the account that younger fish are typically more voracious/stupid/easier to catch
Regardless, even if you had perfect data, you STILL have to know how to interpret it! You have to be willing to have an open mind and be open to alternate explanations. From what I can tell, the SAFMC does not have that mentality. They only understand that fishermen kill fish and nothing else matters. I think that the data is good enough, and I submitted a paper to them that attempts to prove it mathematically. I even wrote software that mimics a population of fish where you could change the input parameters with fishing pressure and reproduction rate and could reproduce the exact same graph that they interpret as “overfishing”. The funny thing about it is that I COULD NOT reproduce an overfishing situation with the same graph as an output which convinces me even more that they are flat out wrong. The graph looked a lot different!!! I would LOVE for someone to challenge me on it. But, I got no response on it, and have nobody to carry the torch for me in their secret meetings…
Their must have been 2 of the yeti s, Team BoB-O won a 35Qt
Bob-O 33palmetto
Skinneej that is interesting reading. Thank you for that information. I dont see how they can be so set in their ways with data and make no real effort to collect more current and better data. If you have ever been to wisconsin for Sturgen spearing season you will see real data being collected and put into good use. Season lenght is determined by # of fish, sex and age. Spearing only goes until 11:00 AM so all fish can be checked in with the DNR and taged. That is easy since there are only 2 lakes where Sturgen spearing happens. My point is get out of the office get in boats and wait at ramps to collect data. You wont get every fish but it will be more than the 30 some fish checked in. Then we the people might beleive more of the crap they are trying to feed us.
A wise man once said “Do as I say not as I do” Good advice when I tell you that.
quote:
Originally posted by Opps_lostSkinneej that is interesting reading. Thank you for that information. I dont see how they can be so set in their ways with data and make no real effort to collect more current and better data. If you have ever been to wisconsin for Sturgen spearing season you will see real data being collected and put into good use. Season lenght is determined by # of fish, sex and age. Spearing only goes until 11:00 AM so all fish can be checked in with the DNR and taged. That is easy since there are only 2 lakes where Sturgen spearing happens. My point is get out of the office get in boats and wait at ramps to collect data. You wont get every fish but it will be more than the 30 some fish checked in. Then we the people might beleive more of the crap they are trying to feed us.
A wise man once said “Do as I say not as I do” Good advice when I tell you that.
The problem is that there are two organizations at opposite ends. There are the FEDS (SAFMC\NOAA\NMFS) and there is the STATE (SCDNR). The FEDS manage snapper. The state does NOT. SCDNR is the one collecting the data. Luckily they have some biologists around that are actually interested in studying the species. They collect data and pass that data up to the FEDS. If the feds do not like the data, they dump it in the trash.
I’ve always been told to judge someone by their actions, not by their words. Look at how SCDNR manages state fisheries (redfish, trout, oysters, etc). They do have reasonable regulations in place, but they also do things like habitat restoration, fish stocking out of the waddell center, artificial reef building, etc. It’s a comprehensive approach to management.
The feds swear that they do not have the money for this which is a LIE. If they wanted to get the money for this, they easily