I’m always amused by all the armchair scientists saying “its this!”, “its that!” Those opinions plus 25 cents will get you a gumball. There are things we do that we know are no good for the environment. Like fertilizing the heck out of your grass or flushing engine degreaser down the storm drains. We need to stop what we know is bad. But only folks like SCDNR (maybe DHEC?) can give real answers about the cause if they are funded to study it. For now, as sportsmen, all we can do is like what RAD said and point out that there is a problem. Likely, it’s a multiplying factor of many small things tied to the explosion in population here
Protected sharks is one I haven’t considered. This condition could definitely be a factor; if there is in fact, an issue to begin with. I have been working in Brazil, offshore for many years. There are always fishing boats everywhere. They fish with hand lines made of cord. They hammer the fish mercilessly and indiscriminately. If there are any regulation to speak of, they are unenforced or not followed at all. There is no such thing as catch and release and they are not fishing for fun. The fish population, in my opinion, is incredible. How have the populations handled this type of slaughter and sustained? When I climb to the top of the vessel and look down it looks like an aquarium of tuna, mahi mahi and other desirable species. These waters have been fished in this manner for decades. One thing is for certain, they have a REAL problem with pollution. It is visible; the waterways look like landfills and they treat them like their toilet. Since this post was started I have been comparing the difference in my mind. They place no value on their fisheries and treat them as such, the fish markets are over flowing with more fish than can be sold. Mahi goes for two dollars a kilo at local markets. We value our fisheries, we are good stewards or try our best to be, yet our outlook on it always seems to be negative and everything is always in decline; or we are convinced of such.
2013 Ranger Z21 Intracoastal 250 hp Yamaha VMAX SHO
No inshore sharks readily feed on juvenile reds except bull sharks, and it is rare.
It’s tough to kill a redfish outside of water temps above 80.
2.5 How can catch and release hurt?
There isn’t enough fishing pressure in several areas of this state to account for the decline in said areas.
Less than .1% of inshore fishermen fish with a bow. Some reds are gigged, but the numbers are really low as compared being taken with rod and reel.
Dolphins are the biggest killers of reds around here, but they have been here as long as the reds, so pointing a finger at them doesn’t make much sense. The shark population did not explode in 2010; neither did the number of people over harvesting or releasing improperly.
quote:Originally posted by dadgum
Protected Sharks = Federal puppy mill from Mayport to Charleston.
Could sharks have an indirect effect on the redfish possibly? Could their presence be having an indirect effect on the food chain or could there be territorial influences between the two? To have an effect, I am not so sure it would have to be as straight forward as “Do sharks eat redfish?”. I do think that a correlation could be generated possibly between the time periods of increase and decrease of the two populations (not sure if there really is a population decline myself), but I also understand the difference between correlation and causation. I am not a biologist but the conversation is interesting and while I may lack the financial ability to experiment and prove/disprove, it does not mean that critical thinking, hypothesis or conversation should cease.
2013 Ranger Z21 Intracoastal 250 hp Yamaha VMAX SHO
I can assure you that sharks don’t even need to be in the discussion for the decline of statewide juvenile redfish populations, and yes, inshore populations are most definitely substantially lower in numbers than 5 years ago.
quote:Originally posted by Big Shrimpin
Could sharks have an indirect effect on the redfish possibly? Could their presence be having an indirect effect on the food chain or could there be territorial influences between the two? To have an effect, I am not so sure it would have to be as straight forward as “Do sharks eat redfish?”. I do think that a correlation could be generated possibly between the time periods of increase and decrease of the two populations (not sure if there really is a population decline myself), but I also understand the difference between correlation and causation. I am not a biologist but the conversation is interesting and while I may lack the financial ability to experiment and prove/disprove, it does not mean that critical thinking, hypothesis or conversation should cease.
2013 Ranger Z21 Intracoastal 250 hp Yamaha VMAX SHO
I monitor over 300 flats schools from Calibogue Sound to North Inlet multiple times per year. It is personal observation from me and all the other tournament fishermen that are on the water statewide year round. There is no scientific study done thus far as this post denotes. We that are on the water non-stop are out in front of this situation by 4+ years.
quote:Originally posted by Big Shrimpin
Is this based on personal observation or a scientific study of the local population? Both are relevant but the distinction is important.
2013 Ranger Z21 Intracoastal 250 hp Yamaha VMAX SHO
I’ll still put ALL</font id=“blue”> my bets on problem stated in my two previous posts in this thread.
Been around the block a few times , seen it happening , didn’t know or realize the affects , but can now see the results, SAD ,
<font color="red"><font size="5">POLLUTION</font id="size5"></font id="red"> Plain and simple!!
By the way, Sharks slay bulls in the surf. Fact… And there’s a whole lot more sharks than dolphins. And the dolphin have a hard time eating 35" bulls… AND the dolphin prefer the oiliest bait they can herd. Mullet and Menhaden are their favorite by far.
Flathead Catfish eat the young at the divide too. Bunches.
Once a fish has been injured. It becomes an enhanced visual and scented target for it’s predators and scavengers. Also infection source. Some scientist claim a 40% mortality rate for shallow water hooked and released fish, and 80% reduced life expectancy in blue water.
Most people don’t have a clue of stomach damage when they wrench the hook from lip cartilage and claim they had a safe lip hook.
I believe that more damage is happening from coast to coast with wholesale catch and release practices that has been studied yet.
Recreation has decimated many forms of wildlife, and though we love it, we gotta be careful. I think we should integrate an eat what you catch philosophy in our discussion. Especially to our youth…
Nothing against some, but go to a tournament release site and watch the floaters of caught& aerated fish released dead. Come on man. That’s reality.
Bowfishing gone wild. It has evolved into a wholesale slaughter for some. Big numbers just for fun. And growing fast with 50k decked out rigs and $500 bows.
Reality is that there are countless factors but the simple one to control are frequently overlooked and under discussed.
How about let’s start by enforcing the rules we have and burning the ones that break them instead of making new rules. It’s even mentioned in Rep. Goldfinches comments that some people aren’t following the rules. If they aren’t worried about keeping too many or keeping fish that are too small or too big now do you think a catch and release law is going to change the way they operate? We need to enforce the laws we already have and quit making new ones!!!
Once a fish has been injured. It becomes an enhanced visual and scented target for it’s predators and scavengers. Also infection source. Some scientist claim a 40% mortality rate for shallow water hooked and released fish, and 80% reduced life expectancy in blue water.
Most people don’t have a clue of stomach damage when they wrench the hook from lip cartilage and claim they had a safe lip hook.
I believe that more damage is happening from coast to coast with wholesale catch and release practices that has been studied yet.
Recreation has decimated many forms of wildlife, and though we love it, we gotta be careful. I think we should integrate an eat what you catch philosophy in our discussion. Especially to our youth…
Nothing against some, but go to a tournament release site and watch the floaters of caught& aerated fish released dead. Come on man. That’s reality.
Bowfishing gone wild. It has evolved into a wholesale slaughter for some. Big numbers just for fun. And growing fast with 50k decked out rigs and $500 bows.
Reality is that there are countless factors but the simple one to control are frequently overlooked and under discussed.
The problem is all of the Dihydrogen Monoxide (DHMO) that has contaminated our flats and other coastal waters. This chemical kills humans by merely inhaling it; imagine what it does to the poor redfish. The DNR, golf course operators, and big evil corporations have turned a blind eye to it because this harmful chemical is everywhere and they are all profiting from it.
2013 Ranger Z21 Intracoastal 250 hp Yamaha VMAX SHO
No Rad, Ain’t me. Thanks for the blessing though. I’ve been studying critters for 50+ years and have yet to see a science smarter than my eyeballs and gut. I read and listen but they always hang themselves intellectually at some point. I think the most profound example of such is (shocking counts). How dadgum ridiculous can you get? The range on their rigs ain’t good but for 15 or 20 ’ at best in still water. The operators will tell you that. I could go on.
Bottom line= many factors. But some of the apparent, simple ones don’t make headlines and force legislation.
I’m not much ANTI any reasonable game harvest. And that’s exactly my point. Harvest. The recreational aspect should be secondary in the true spirit overall.
Your profound inshore experience shines through in your posts. Carry on Toppy, jr.
quote:Originally posted by dadgum
No Rad, Ain’t me. Thanks for the blessing though. I’ve been studying critters for 50+ years and have yet to see a science smarter than my eyeballs and gut. I read and listen but they always hang themselves intellectually at some point. I think the most profound example of such is (shocking counts). How dadgum ridiculous can you get? The range on their rigs ain’t good but for 15 or 20 ’ at best in still water. The operators will tell you that. I could go on.
Bottom line= many factors. But some of the apparent, simple ones don’t make headlines and force legislation.
I’m not much ANTI any reasonable game harvest. And that’s exactly my point. Harvest. The recreational aspect should be secondary in the true spirit overall.
I’ll still put ALL</font id=“blue”> my bets on problem stated in my two previous posts in this thread.
Been around the block a few times , seen it happening , didn’t know or realize the affects , but can now see the results, SAD ,
<font color="red"><font size="5">POLLUTION</font id="size5"></font id="red"> Plain and simple!!
When you see “Old Glory” waving in the breeze, know that it is the dying breaths of our fallen hero’s that makes it wave.
author unknown
Is the solution more regulation by the EPA? Based on comments here, many folks are overtly stating chemicals and pollution are the cause for many issues with the environment. However, there are also many that disagree with more regulation of chemicals and pollution…
The pollution cause is too easy to debunk. I first question whether a problem exists (redfish population). The source of the claim should be questioned. Often times judgement is influenced by passion, money, or ideology. If their evidence is strong enough to warrant research, then study the fish. Manipulating regulations before a study (which is the goal of this politician and group of local fishing guides), goes against scientific method. Any improvement in the fishery will automatically correlate to the regulation change, whether the relationship was causal or not. Claiming to know the state of a fishery based on what is visible to the human eye on a flat is also questionable in my opinion as the fish may have freedom of choice in where there they might wish to reside based on any number of factors.
2013 Ranger Z21 Intracoastal 250 hp Yamaha VMAX SHO
