Try to debunk it or not , but what used to be and what is today is not
debatable with me, it’s not just the redfish but the entire
ecosystem is being exterminated slowly and surely. If not pollution and destruction by development, then tell me WHAT</font id=“size4”></font id=“red”>
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author unknown
There have been several suggestions as to what. The problem with the other suggestions is that it does not conform to your litmus test which requires the cause to be pollution.
2013 Ranger Z21 Intracoastal 250 hp Yamaha VMAX SHO
Where would development be around Winyah Bay…? Debriedu is built out, and everything between there and Mclelanville is off limits. That’s a very pristine,untouched area. It’s probably a number of things.
What about the cold ass winters we had a few years back…Are they doing recruitment studies…?
We get red tides here…?
I quoted both development and pollution , Shat flows loooooong
ways , mostly from headwaters and up-state!!![:0][:0]What goes in creek goes down the creek 
Still my opinion. I can also
imagine that folks that deny/skew info on true severity of pollution
numbers/problems might have a vested interest to make situation look better than it is----follow the MONEY!! Might be surprised where that
ride will take you.
[http://www.militaryappreciationday.org
When you see “Old Glory” waving in the breeze, know that it is the dying breaths of our fallen hero’s that makes it wave.
author unknown
Hit taken out by the Redfish Mafia ??
What you are claiming is obviously from a voice of total inexperience. There is only so much suitable habitat within any given ecosystem. Redfish are not going to change their preference for such habitat within a few years. 90+ percent of the creeks and marsh do not hold and have never held decent populations of redfish because of the lack of specific needed structure that increase feeding opportunities AND provides protection from predators. Even though sight counting is very useful as a tool on flats to determine population trends, catch rates are also a tool and are way down around other preferred deeper areas such as downed trees, rocky banks, and docks in my experience. Although exact numbers can’t be observed in these areas, these fish are less spooky and easier to catch year round, therefor, when catch rates decrease, one would surmise overall numbers are down. What kind of tools and approach do you believe state biologists will use in order to best calculate (as accurately as possible) juvenile redfish numbers? Answer- Shocking in known areas that hold the proper habitat. I think you have severely underestimated the importance of the knowledge gained from shear time on the water. Local pros and guides (hundreds in SC) are on the water 150+ days per year; mostly they concentrate their efforts in relatively small areas. This provides (IMO) some very strong data which needs to be (is being) used in decision making concerning efforts to bring stocks back up. Aren’t we all on the same team here? Your post insinuates guides will benefit from changes in legislation. Not being able to keep a few reds for the table will hurt many a guide in the Georgetown area if approved.
quote:
Originally posted by Big ShrimpinThe pollution cause is too easy to debunk. I first question whether a problem exists (redfish population). The source of the claim should be questioned. Often times judgeme
I do miss toppyblue
No areas are off limits or too far detatched to NOT be affected by the crap flowing down the water ways, even read that there are beaches
where the sand ain’t sand ,it’s primarily pulverized plastic , now pray tell where in a natural environment is plastic sand produced ??
Most all true fishermen respect the environment and don’t shat
in their playground !!! Commercial fishermen , guides , and recreational folks have waaay to much to lose to not speak out
to get our waters clean again …
[http://www.militaryappreciationday.org
When you see “Old Glory” waving in the breeze, know that it is the dying breaths of our fallen hero’s that makes it wave.
author unknown
It must be pollution and development then. I give up. Now all the omnipotent tournament fishermen statewide know where all the redfish are and also know that “catch rates” are down statewide for everyone all the time (except for the poachers somehow?). I am inexperienced with this topic because I disagree? While I do not disagree that pollution exists, I am just pointing out that it may not be the primary source of our issue. All I can say is if it is the source , kiss the redfish goodbye. They will be leaving. The people aren’t going anywhere and the development is not going to stop. People not catching redfish will not save them. They will not be able to sustain. If the net population growth is a negative number every year. Catch rates, slot limits, etc can ultimately do nothing to save them.
2013 Ranger Z21 Intracoastal 250 hp Yamaha VMAX SHO
quote:
Originally posted by OptikerI’m skeptical that many people are keeping 10-15 fish. Hell the violation is, what, $500 per?
There is some other reason for the decline, IMO
2000 SeaPro 180CC w/ Yammy 115 2 stroke
1966 13’ Boston Whaler w/ Merc 25 4 stroke “Flatty”
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I’m with you Opticker. I know a lot of locals that have in the past keep a few over the limit, but I honestly don’t know anyone now that keeps any spot tail due to the huge fines. And IMO the larger over slot reds don’t taste good. Laws enforced with huge penalties seem to work well.
Can’t say on the decline other than all this fresh water has messed up my usual brackish water spots.
What I’d like to see is people not catching and releasing 20-30-40-60+ spot tail for bragging rights. Come on people, even with the utmost care no way are all 60 hooked fish gonna make it alive. Catch your limit and quit. Release them or eat them, but stop at the limit.
“If Bruce Jenner can keep his wiener and be called a woman, I can keep my firearms and be considered disarmed.”
I “catch” your sarcasm, and yes, catch rates are down state wide. Give me some data that supports the opposite. How do you think a movement was started to help out the Santee striper population? It surely wasn’t by biologists. There are several areas in the state that receive relatively minimum pressure (as was stated earlier), and populations are still way down. I never stated every school in the state has been decimated, but we as guides and tournament anglers network enough to know there is a problem. Again, if you have opposing data, please share.
quote:
Originally posted by Big ShrimpinIt must be pollution and development then. I give up. Now all the omnipotent tournament fishermen statewide know where all the redfish are and also know that “catch rates” are down statewide for everyone all the time (except for the poachers somehow?). I am inexperienced with this topic because I disagree? While I do not disagree that pollution exists, I am just pointing out that it may not be the primary source of our issue. All I can say is if it is the source , kiss the redfish goodbye. They will be leaving. The people aren’t going anywhere and the development is not going to stop. People not catching redfish will not save them. They will not be able to sustain. If the net population growth is a negative number every year. Catch rates, slot limits, etc can ultimately do nothing to save them.
2013 Ranger Z21 Intracoastal 250 hp Yamaha VMAX SHO
The Santee biologist can sample the local population, size, and health by using the fish lift. It is videoed and the number and size of fish passing through are monitored as well. They also utilize the reports of fisherman. I will say that the source of that problem was very apparent. Not so much with redfish. We must remember that the population in the Atlantic and the gulf thrived for many years with commercial fisherman utilizing nets, helicopters, etc and there was recreational fishing. The population has since rebounded and I highly doubt that recreational fishing has pressured the resource anywhere near the extremes as the now prohibited commercial market. I have to believe there is a natural cause for this perceived decline.
2013 Ranger Z21 Intracoastal 250 hp Yamaha VMAX SHO
If I cannot provide you with data, how does that lend credibility to your assertion? You have not provided any empirical studies or evidence to support your claim.
2013 Ranger Z21 Intracoastal 250 hp Yamaha VMAX SHO
Fred ;
I took a young airman out for the MAD event this past Nov, he caught
a 34" red , his first salt fish ever and could not believe
he had to release it,I think he wanted to have it mounted but had to settle for several pics …Just sayin!!!
[http://www.militaryappreciationday.org
When you see “Old Glory” waving in the breeze, know that it is the dying breaths of our fallen hero’s that makes it wave.
author unknown
I have tried to upload an image from Google Earth but have failed to be able to.
Go to Google Earth and go to the time lapse button. Zoom into Winyah Bay and North Inlet. Click on October 2015 on the time lapse and tell me what you see. The rain and flooding from October flushed enough fresh water and who knows what else thru that entire ecosystem that it has got to affect the fish and everything else.
If you look close enough, NI is completely covered up with fresh water. So much for their “relatively pristine salt marsh inlet nestled between Georgetown’s Winyah Bay and DeBordieu Colony”
Now, think back to the rain events with flooding that we have had over the last 10 years and consider the overall affect.
What do I know though.
18’ Hewes Bayfisher
The water in general has been more tannic appearing than I remember for the past several months. Not sure if than has anything to do with it, but I assume more tannin also equals more pollutants
quote:
Originally posted by millacdThe water in general has been more tannic appearing than I remember for the past several months. Not sure if than has anything to do with it, but I assume more tannin also equals more pollutants
Not necessarily more pollutants just because the water is “darker”. The tanin is just staining from tree leaves. That’s why we have so many “black” water rivers. Water is out of the banks now(has been for a bit) soaking in the years of forest leaves that have previously been dry. Soaking up all that black swamp mud juice. It all flows to the ocean.
It will elevate mercury levels. Mercury naturally occurs in some tree leaves while others “acquire” it from the atmosphere from pollution.
Take a run up the Combahee into the Salkahatchie and see just how much fresh water is laying past the banks getting darker and darker from tanin. I’m hoping for some wonderful May full moon red breast.
“If Bruce Jenner can keep his wiener and be called a woman, I can keep my firearms and be considered disarmed.”
I know the tannin is from trees, I’m also assuming it’s a surrogate marker for the amount of runoff which contains pollutants like fertilizers