P.B. if an assistant property manager tells me it is OK! I would assume that he was speaking with the managers authority until informed otherwise, which is what happened! So, NO, he was not trespassing! He had permission that was revoked.
Palmetto, it seems you have some experience with this?.. I’m not going back - although I have someone who has offered to invite me on as a guest - it’s just the moral aspect of it, I guess, that bothers me. You should re-read what I posted. I was doing no harm and was with a child. I understand some people want to shy away from the general public and that’s why they buy in to these properties. It’s not like it was a single owner private dock that I was invading. It is a 4 building condominium complex. I could have been anyone’s brother, cousin, husband out there fishing, but he inquired and I gave him the honest answer. Again, I get what you’re saying. I know a lot more fisherman who would welcome a father and son than not and it caught me off-guard. I thought it was a real dick move, to be honest, but completely understand the principle of it. And, again, I WILL prove a point and anchor off right next to the dock and fish until I’m sick. I don’t need to fish that dock so it’s really a non-issue. And with the exception of your opinion I got a general consensus that this gentleman who ran off a child and his father who were quietly fishing and enjoying time with each other and causing no harm or creating problems with anyone is, in-fact, an a**hole. That’s all I was wondering. While you may consider me a trespasser, I WAS given permission. So trespassing? Yes, innocently so.
That’s why they call it fishing, not catching…
Also, palmetto, if my property manager gave the lawn guy permission to fish from my dock I might have an issue only in that he didn’t ask ME first. But if the guy who ASKED permission wasn’t trashing my dock or bringing his buddies to get drunk and fish, then he would by all means have my blessing to fish and I can say with 100% certainty I would most likely grab my fishing rod and join him! That’s coming from a humble fisherman, of course…
That’s why they call it fishing, not catching…
quote:
Originally posted by EasyP.B. if an assistant property manager tells me it is OK! I would assume that he was speaking with the managers authority until informed otherwise, which is what happened! So, NO, he was not trespassing! He had permission that was revoked.
We’re picking at semantics here. If the permission he got was not legitimate, he was trespassing. If I tell you that you can use this same dock and you do, you’d be trespassing; perhaps not willfully but still trespassing. In the eyes of the condo owner, he was certainly trespassing and the assistant manager needs to be (and probably has been) made aware of the rules.
My point is that it isn’t fair to call this property owner disparaging names for simply asking the manager to do his job and keep unauthorized people off the private docks. The original poster knew he was at best a guest. When his permission got revoked, he called the rightful property owner “cold hearted”, with a little class envy thrown in. He was lucky to get the chance to fish from the dock in the first place and was not entitled to further access no matter what his behavior, family status, or creel contents.
There is no intent to trespass therefore no trespassing. He was there because he was told he could be there. That is NOT trespassing.
As generally used, trespass occurs when either:
A person intentionally enters another's land, without permission;
A person remains on another's land without the continued permission
of the landowner.
He had permission from someone who he thought had the authority to grant permission and, he left when asked to do so. NO trespassing.
Dustin, I assume that if you ever end up owning a dock, it will be public access. Good luck with that.
All I can tell you is that my experience with letting folks enjoy my property very often ends up biting me in the butt. Many will try to push the edges of any rules or outright break them and after they are invited once, they feel like they have some sort of divine right to the property thereafter. That’s why most property is posted and why it is so hard to get access permission from land owners. It’s not that land owners are innately selfish, it’s that the folks that they allow to use the property frequently abuse the privilege.
Try to see it from his perspective. If your young child fell off that dock, you could name the mean old condo owner in the law suit and, even if you didn’t win, he’d have to spend thousands just to hire a lawyer to represent him.
I can buy that. I’m not the type to sue over my own negligence, but the owner doesn’t know that, so as far as the liability is concerned, I completely agree. If I am ever fortunate enough to afford waterfront property it definitely wouldn’t be open to the public, but if anyone who did work for me - assuming I couldn’t do it myself - asked for the privilege to fish from my property I don’t THINK I’d have a problem with it. No different than me hunting on a certain plantation for helping out with some grounds work. I did a service and was granted a hunt with no problems. I could have EASILY gotten into the property by foot and no one would’ve ever known, but I try to stay as honest as possible. I truly appreciate your perspective on this post.
quote:
Originally posted by Palmetto BugDustin, I assume that if you ever end up owning a dock, it will be public access. Good luck with that.
All I can tell you is that my experience with letting folks enjoy my property very often ends up biting me in the butt. Many will try to push the edges of any rules or outright break them and after they are invited once, they feel like they have some sort of divine right to the property thereafter. That’s why most property is posted and why it is so hard to get access permission from land owners. It’s not that land owners are innately selfish, it’s that the folks that they allow to use the property frequently abuse the privilege.
Try to see it from his perspective. If your young child fell off that dock, you could name the mean old condo owner in the law suit and, even if you didn’t win, he’d have to spend thousands just to hire a lawyer to represent him.
That’s why they call it fishing, not catching…
quote:
I can buy that. I'm not the type to sue over my own negligence, but the owner doesn't know that, so as far as the liability is concerned, I completely agree.
Not many people would, but it goes further than just you. Say for instance that your son, or yourself was injured and required medical attention. It is very likely that your personal insurance company would sue the landowner for reimbursement of damages they incurred, and you can’t do anything to stop that from happening. I’ve seen this happen on 3 different occasions.
For instance, my elderly mother recently fell down in the church parking lot while leaving church. She broke one leg and tore the kneecap of the other. She goes to the hospital by ambulance and has thousands in medical bills, which she has insurance for. But, her insurance company sued the church and their insurance company for liability of damages. My mother would never sue her church, but her insurance company sure will and did.
Edit: It’s a crazy world today
Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats
Marine Surveying & Repair
I feel that I must interject on the matter. If the “assistant manager” gave permission, whether he was in the right or not, he was acting in the capacity of the management. Dustin is not at fault, the management is. This then become an issue of the management. If the assistant is not working within his capacities, he either did not have them clearly explained to him by upper management, or he knowingly acted outside his bounds. Management still becomes responsible. Look at any corporatat law suit. Seemingly low level employees acting in good faith or not, the upper management ultimately is responsible, if nothing else for not clearly explaining the roles and responsibilities to their subordinates.
jczc2414; You may be new on CFC, but your smarter than others! Of course, that being said, the management that told Dustin he could fish, would have lied out of their azz if confronted! Oh, welcome aboard!
duatin it sounds like you got a good head on your shoulders. if you need a safe/public place that your little one can have fun got to mt pleasant and check out either the mount pleasant pier/pitt st/or the new shem creek park.
family friendly places for sure
“mr keys”
quote:X2
Originally posted by northchuckyduatin it sounds like you got a good head on your shoulders. if you need a safe/public place that your little one can have fun got to mt pleasant and check out either the mount pleasant pier/pitt st/or the new shem creek park.
family friendly places for sure
“mr keys”
“If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel .” Benjamin Netanyahu
Ecclesiastes 10:2
GW 205
F200 Yam
The key point in all of this is don’t take it personal. You’ve heard just the tip of the iceberg on liability reasons (I’ve been in commercial real estate for 20 years), and Palmetto provided good explanations even though his initial comment came across as harsh. I suspect that the guy was probably fine with it initially but then probably felt you were starting to overstep your bounds with the use. That’s his opinion and he’s entitled to it as one of the property owners. His regime pays a property management company to deal with such matters so they don’t have to and you don’t know where you’re headed now days when confronting people. Everyone on here may have handled the situation differently but it is what it is. A wise person once told me, “If you take all of this shi* to heart, you’ll die with a heart full of shi*.” Don’t take it personal, move on in a positive direction - getting your kids on some fish! Let’s discuss how we can help with that instead of haggling over some old dude on a dock and what he was possibly thinking and whose fault it is. Just my 2 cents!
Sorry you had a bad experience Dustin, I can say I have had a few bad experiences on our local waterways also, unfortunately not everyone is as nice as our fellow CF members
experience noun \ik-#712;spir–#601;n(t)s
-
the fact or state of having been affected by or gained knowledge through direct observation or participation
-
that thing you get just moments after you needed it.
I had a man and his son come up and ask to fish on our dock once. I was just about to take my parents out for a short ride. The guy was real nice, polite. I told him yes. They were camping just down the cove.
I laid a piece of crap Browning rod and Garcia baitcaster out on the dock prior to our leaving. I get back and the guy, his son, and my rod and reel are gone. Our neighbor saw him take it. We called the sheriff, and they ran him off from his camping spot. Never saw the rod and reel again.
My point is you never know. I’ve been taken advantage of on several occasions, and I’m sure I will be again. I’ve even had people untie my boat and beach it so they could have access to both sides of the dock. Generally I’m okay with most people asking, but I understand why other people want to maintain their private dock. The condo manager, or the assistant, has the responsibility of enforcing the condo’s bylaws, and not amending those bylaws for whatever reason.
That’s total BS! I would’ve been livid! You really don’t ever know… I genuinely understand everyone’s perspective. I’ve always been the guy that could argue for both sides of of a debate. I was just looking for some closure in the way I felt towards the guy. I don’t like feeling angry with someone and was trying to get a feel as to whether or not he was just being an ass about it. I never abused this privilege. At most it was twice a month for maybe 3 hours at a time. I don’t want to ruffle any feathers about it. I’m over it honestly. We have another private dock in a community where my wife was raised and everyone who sees us out there comes to talk with my son and I. I feel really welcome there and even though the fishing sucks, the conversations are great and my son has a blast! I seriously think this community of fisherman is the best I have ever dealt with and I hope to see you all out on the water!
Dustin Cole
quote:
Originally posted by MandopickrI had a man and his son come up and ask to fish on our dock once. I was just about to take my parents out for a short ride. The guy was real nice, polite. I told him yes. They were camping just down the cove.
I laid a piece of crap Browning rod and Garcia baitcaster out on the dock prior to our leaving. I get back and the guy, his son, and my rod and reel are gone. Our neighbor saw him take it. We called the sheriff, and they ran him off from his camping spot. Never saw the rod and reel again.
My point is you never know. I’ve been taken advantage of on several occasions, and I’m sure I will be again. I’ve even had people untie my boat and beach it so they could have access to both sides of the dock. Generally I’m okay with most people asking, but I understand why other people want to maintain their private dock. The condo manager, or the assistant, has the responsibility of enforcing the condo’s bylaws, and not amending those
I am by no means wealthy. I do however own property and have had a similar problem with poachers and fisherman helping themselves to game on my land that is clearly posted “No Tresspassing”. Forgive me for not wanting men i don’t know carrying rifles, from walking through my backyard. I have children and am an avid fisherman. The guy may have been a jerk to you but he was warranted. It is in fact private property and he is not aware of your intentions beyond the fact that you want to fish and do not live there. You have look at it from the other person’s side before you pass judgement. By you going back in your boat and going na na at him only proves to him he was right about you being there to cause trouble. The guy probably is a “Tool” but so are you if you persist. I wouldn’t want to take my daughter fishing somewhere we are not welcome anyway. Just let it go.
Sauerkraut
I have to agree with Palmetto.I let people I trust use my dock.If one brings a friend and gets hurt I am up crap creek.I will be sued like crazy.One brought a 2 year old kid and i was really worried the whole time they were on the dock.
next time i will say sorry.
Stonoman
quote:
Originally posted by stonomanI have to agree with Palmetto.I let people I trust use my dock.If one brings a friend and gets hurt I am up crap creek.I will be sued like crazy.One brought a 2 year old kid and i was really worried the whole time they were on the dock.
next time i will say sorry.Stonoman
Umbrella policy. You can get 1mil in coverage for a $150 or so…
I think what’s sad, Stonoman and Palmetto Bug, is that we live in a country where we are all in constant fear of a lawsuit. Our society has gotten to a point where someone who is privileged enough to own such beautiful properties and would like to share it with a few members of the community can’t and won’t from fear of a lawsuit. I’m still young enough and fortunate to not have been sued. I’ve never sued anyone and only thought about it once (I was assaulted with a spade shovel, so you can’t really blame me) but decided not to. I understand fully, the implications of allowing someone to enjoy your property, whether it’s hunting, fishing or just waking. If someone snaps their ankle on your dock they might sue you and - in the world we live in - probably will. What’s worse, is our government and our appointed justices often find in favor of these people and their frivolous claims. People refuse to be held accountable for their own mistakes. I’m glad I wasn’t raised that way, but, sadly, a lot of people are…
That’s why they call it fishing, not catching…