Aight, so I was conversing with another Charleston Boater and discussion came up about a “worst case scenario” and what would you do. Thought getting some ■■■■■■■■ might help, good or bad… I?m prepared for the “your boats to small, stay home comments.” Trying to consider decisions Captains might have to make.
Scenario: Two smaller sized 23’ buddy boats roll out to the shelf on what locals would call a good day, 6am. One has 3 people aboard the other has 4 people. Fluke and constant high winds roll in early afternoon (Similar to last Wednesday 4/22) that were hard to predict and on a pounding boat ride towards harbor, one boat breaks and is immobile. (Single motor, will not start) A tow is not proving useful as both boats together struggle in building seas. They both are taking shots over the top in 3-4’ seas at 3-4 seconds and covering little to no ground. (Speculating sea tow is not going to run 30 miles offshore to help in seas this size, even with the membership) Let?s say you have two and a half hours of daylight at this point, are unsure of weather to come but sense seas are getting larger. Radio contact with surrounding boats is not of help. What would you do?
Towing is not safe as both boats are in jeopardy.
Sea tow is not coming until things settle.
Coast Guard is not a towing service, I know.
So?
Abandon broken boat and putt home in working buddy boat? All 7 people?
Leave a couple members on broken boat with power and vhf but not motor?
Keep two boats together until a solution is found?
Just bouncing ideas/thoughts around to the wise. Thanks.
If it were this dire in 3/4 seas any good captain would find a following sea, even if it took him/her into some distant port. (Unless it took u further out, and then you would find the best angle possible) That would put you into range of sea tow. These are just my first thoughts.
Stay with the the vessel. That’s the rule that’s been taught for ages. You only abandon ship when sinking is imminent. If the working boat can handle some or all of the other people - the safety of the transfer is the big question. A sea anchor on the out of command vessel can be as simple as a bucket on a rope tied to the bow. The under command vessel must evaluate the fuel consumption in rough seas with more weight from the other boats crew. The other rule is " the captain of a vessel is inescapably responsible for the safety of all on board"
quote:If it were this dire in 3/4 seas any good captain would find a following sea, even if it took him/her into some distant port.
This^^ I’ve had the weather go to heck several times when fishing out of Savannah and the sea conditions wouldn’t allow running in the needed direction. I’ve come back into Charlesto and once I ran all the way to Jacksonville because that was the only direction I could make way. Get home itis has killed a lot of boaters.
quote:Stay with the the vessel. That's the rule that's been taught for ages.
And this ^^
Capt. Larry Teuton
912-six55-5674
lteuton at aol dot com
“Ships are the nearest things to dreams that hands have ever made.” -Robert N. Rose
This scenario (with or without the weather added) is becoming more of a possibilty nowadays,especially with more affordable 20 something center consoles and a huge lack of knowledge on the inner workings of engines. I have a single engine and carry a full array of tools and repair parts to fix just about anything with out pulling the motor. As far as this scenario I would place everyone on the working vessel and make a decision based on several factors such as life saftey gear (epirb / raft), age/ability of crew, fuel, building/subsiding sea conditions, etc. Following sea for another port is a good idea if you have the fuel. Staying with the other vessel is ok if you are in subsiding sea conditions, have the fuel and your crew has the physical ability to weather the storm. Boats are replaceable but people are not.
-Albemarle 248xf “Chella”
-Dolphin 18BC Pro
-HT Bugbuster
If it were this dire in 3/4 seas any good captain would find a following sea, even if it took him/her into some distant port. (Unless it took u further out, and then you would find the best angle possible) That would put you into range of sea tow. These are just my first thoughts.
I agree and have experienced the following sea advice. Also, every time I go out I know I have the responsibility to my wife and children to come back no matter what. I feel that way for others that go with me as well. Knowing I fish in the smaller boat category, I take what I feel is needed and what I can store in my boat with the limited space. That said, I am fully prepared to step out of my boat at the ledge one day and watch it drift off as I safely board another boat. God willing, it will never happen, but there is no amount of money or anything that is worth trying to save that is more valuable than my family or others in my boat.
If it were this dire in 3/4 seas any good captain would find a following sea, even if it took him/her into some distant port. (Unless it took u further out, and then you would find the best angle possible) That would put you into range of sea tow. These are just my first thoughts.
I agree and have experienced the following sea advice. Also, every time I go out I know I have the responsibility to my wife and children to come back no matter what. I feel that way for others that go with me as well. Knowing I fish in the smaller boat category, I take what I feel is needed and what I can store in my boat with the limited space. That said, I am fully prepared to step out of my boat at the ledge one day and watch it drift off as I safely board another boat. God willing, it will never happen, but there is no amount of money or anything that is worth trying to save that is more valuable than my family or others in my boat.
Don’t have anything useful to offer, but I just wanted to say this response really resonated with me. Well said, Andy.
“I’m not a hundred percent in love with your tone right now…”
Stay with the vessel has been taught for ages… Ages when radar, gps and radio communications weren’t as feasible as they are today. If it were me id say screw the broken boat ,throw the anchor and log the GPS coordinates. I’d notify coast guard of my plan and exact location. I’m not leaving anyone behind, period. If I come back with seatow and my boat is gone, oh well I have full coverage. Life over property every time. We all go out together and we all return together. My family means a whole lot more to me than a replaceable boat. The transfer of the crew offshore in a rough sea would be a challenge but that exactly what I would be doing.
Capt. R. Killin
“Day Tripper”
Shamrock 20 cuddy
Ford 351W
the stay with your boat argument is only valid if you are getting into the ocean to hope for the best. if you are able to be rescued by a more seaworthy craft, that is a different scenario.
either way if you fail to help the other boat and some harm comes to the people, you will most likely be brought up on negligence charges.
Stay with the vessel has been taught for ages… Ages when radar, gps and radio communications weren’t as feasible as they are today. If it were me id say screw the broken boat ,throw the anchor and log the GPS coordinates. I’d notify coast guard of my plan and exact location. I’m not leaving anyone behind, period. If I come back with seatow and my boat is gone, oh well I have full coverage. Life over property every time. We all go out together and we all return together. My family means a whole lot more to me than a replaceable boat. The transfer of the crew offshore in a rough sea would be a challenge but that exactly what I would be doing.
Capt. R. Killin
“Day Tripper”
Shamrock 20 cuddy
Ford 351W
x2
I’m still wondering why you say that wind on 4/22 was a fluke? It was forcasted, that’s why I stayed on the hill.
quote: I'm not leaving anyone behind, period. If I come back with seatow and my boat is gone, oh well I have full coverage. Life over property every time. We all go out together and we all return together.
Capt. Larry Teuton
912-six55-5674
lteuton at aol dot com
“Ships are the nearest things to dreams that hands have ever made.” -Robert N. Rose
I agree with those who say leave the boat. My life and who I have with me is more important than a boat. Dawn the life jackets, call the CG and inform them of the situation, provide crew list by name, toss the anchor with as much rope as you have and tie off. Mark the location and transfer in the safest manner as possible to the other boat. Proceed home in the safest direction of travel.
I would think to make the transfer in 3 - 4 feet at three seconds with only one boat operational would be dangerous at best. Safer option may be for broke boat occupants abandon ship one at a time in life vest and be picked up by operational boat.
“Temptation may lean on the doorbell… opportunity may only knock once”
You should not leave the beach without enough anchor, chain and rode to hold your boat in rough seas if you lose power. If you’re beyond anchoring depth, you need to have another boat nearby and throw two lines out each with a bucket on the end if you don’t have a sea anchor.
It is outright stupidity for people to go offshore with the anchor gear that I see on some boats- some with no anchor at all. An adequate hook and gear will keep you from capsizing when you lose power, and even twin engine boats lose power. If you say they don’t/won’t, then you’re a fool who hasn’t fished on the ocean enough times to know any better.
Never leave a boat unless it’s sinking or you’ve got another ride. Stuff can be replaced; lives can’t.
I would think to make the transfer in 3 - 4 feet at three seconds with only one boat operational would be dangerous at best. Safer option may be for broke boat occupants abandon ship one at a time in life vest and be picked up by operational boat.
“Temptation may lean on the doorbell… opportunity may only knock once”
I’d be afraid of setting people into the ocean to free swim. Recommend this: Operational boat throws a life line to the disabled boat and crew members are hauled from that boat to operational while both boats not on anchor. Repeat until only captain or best/strongest swimmer set anchor. Finally pull last crew member over to the escape boat.
“I am constantly amazed at the stupidity of the general public.”
~my dad
Equipment:
190cc Sea Pro w/130 Johnson
1- 19 year old (boy of leisure)
1 - 1 year old (fishing maniac)
1 - wife (The Warden)
If it were this dire in 3/4 seas any good captain would find a following sea, even if it took him/her into some distant port. (Unless it took u further out, and then you would find the best angle possible) That would put you into range of sea tow. These are just my first thoughts.
I agree and have experienced the following sea advice. Also, every time I go out I know I have the responsibility to my wife and children to come back no matter what. I feel that way for others that go with me as well. Knowing I fish in the smaller boat category, I take what I feel is needed and what I can store in my boat with the limited space. That said, I am fully prepared to step out of my boat at the ledge one day and watch it drift off as I safely board another boat. God willing, it will never happen, but there is no amount of money or anything that is worth trying to save that is more valuable than my family or others in my boat.
Just curious; if you had to abandon your boat offshore, how would that be viewed from an insurance perspective?
Pray that none of us are ever in this situation.
Phin is hitting the nail on the head. When I used to duck hunt a lot in deep water I kept a sea anchor 5 gal. buck rigged and ready to throw at a moments notice. I instructed everybody on its use before boarding the boat to head off into an open water run in the dark. Told everybody if we were to lose power to throw it, don’t wait to be told. Beam to or stern to in rough water is a deadly combination. An anchor or sea anchor is a life saver.
“Temptation may lean on the doorbell… opportunity may only knock once”
quote:
Just curious; if you had to abandon your boat offshore, how would that be viewed from an insurance perspective?
Pray that none of us are ever in this situation.
2014 Key West 203DFS
1987 Landau
I was thinking about that as well. I’m currently unemployed, but I dug out the policy I used to work with from the archives and this what it looks like to me.
From my old policy (won’t name names…even I’m still pissed at the old company)
The boat needs to be within 50 miles or the nearest port. Some policies may exclude coverage for loss further than 50 miles out if the boat is less than 26 feet in length. The limit may be 100 miles for boats over 26 feet in length.
Here’s the problem exclusion:
(b) Mechanical, engine, transmission, electrical, or structural failure is excluded.
…but you may be ok because of
Exclusions “b.” through “l.” shall not apply to ensuing loss caused by consequential sinking, burning, or collision of the insured watercraft. If your policy does not have this ensuing loss kind of relief against loss…get a different policy.
So if the boat sinks as a consequence of the mechanical issue, the loss may be covered. It’s not clear that if the sinking was caused by abandonment at sea, would that be reason for a denial…there’s no exclusion for abandonment unless the boat was abandoned because “unseaworthiness”, which is an exclusion.
Salvage recovery would be covered.
Bottom line, read your policy. If it excludes coverage for loss more than 50 miles from port, you may be in trouble coverage wise. If it happens, hope you don’t get a jack-ass like my last boss…he’d try to hang the unseaworthiness thing on you.
“I am constantly amazed at the stupidity of the general public.”
~my da