As far as Mercs being faster then Yamaha I believe a huge reason is because most people are running yamaha props which suck. Mercury props are a whole lot faster but do not hit anything with a merc prop because you will be buying a new one. Anytime we sell a high performance boat we put a merc prop on it for speed. For instance The Majek 22 xtreme with a Yamaha 225 SHO with a yamaha prop gets 64 but with a merc prop it will break 70-71. I bet if you took the Yellowfin boat and did an apples to apples boat with yamaha V6 300 with a Merc prop then you will outrun the Verado hands down. 2 knots is a cheap fix.
Phin I know they do not have the 4 stroke 175 but do you not think Yamaha will replace the 150 and 175 HPDI motors with a SHO 150 and 175? They are already replacing all HPDI motors and the only motor left is the 300HPDI and the 150 and 175.
From reds to marlin you got it.
2010 Key West Stealth (on Order)
So you are saying a Yamaha SHO needs a Mercury prop to be faster than
Mercury Verado stock. Maybe Fishman 77 will chime in since he is building one with them.
Not trying to sound like a smartass but Yamaha motors have always needed Merc props to run faster. Mercury focuses on speed more then Yamaha and their props are built for speed. Take a Yamaha prop in one hand and a mercury prop in the other and you will see why. I would never run a Yamaha prop unless I was running a TRP and that is because Merc does not do the TRP lower units. The new fury prop took the bass boat and bay boat market to a wh
As far as Mercs being faster then Yamaha I believe a huge reason is because most people are running yamaha props which suck. Mercury props are a whole lot faster but do not hit anything with a merc prop because you will be buying a new one. Anytime we sell a high performance boat we put a merc prop on it for speed. For instance The Majek 22 xtreme with a Yamaha 225 SHO with a yamaha prop gets 64 but with a merc prop it will break 70-71. I bet if you took the Yellowfin boat and did an apples to apples boat with yamaha V6 300 with a Merc prop then you will outrun the Verado hands down. 2 knots is a cheap fix.
Phin I know they do not have the 4 stroke 175 but do you not think Yamaha will replace the 150 and 175 HPDI motors with a SHO 150 and 175? They are already replacing all HPDI motors and the only motor left is the 300HPDI and the 150 and 175.
From reds to marlin you got it.
2010 Key West Stealth (on Order)
That’s exactly what they did. The Yamahas are running the Mercury Mirage 23 propellers. Same ones they use on the Verado powered boats. It was still 2 knots slower.
But 2 knots on a boat like this is not a major deal for me. If I wanted mid 70’s speed I would have bought the 350 Yamahas and then how often can you actually use it in Charleston. In regards to the new 300’s I did not want to own the first of a new outboard and deal with all the updates that will inevitably come with them. The Verados seem to have all the bugs worked out and have mostly proven themselves reliable.
Service on a new motor is going to be a challenge no matter how many “dealers” are in the area. It’s still a new technology and there is a learning curve. Besides if anything major goes wrong I will be bring the boat back to Yellowfin to get worked on. Sarasota is n
As far as Mercs being faster then Yamaha I believe a huge reason is because most people are running yamaha props which suck. Mercury props are a whole lot faster but do not hit anything with a merc prop because you will be buying a new one. Anytime we sell a high performance boat we put a merc prop on it for speed. For instance The Majek 22 xtreme with a Yamaha 225 SHO with a yamaha prop gets 64 but with a merc prop it will break 70-71. I bet if you took the Yellowfin boat and did an apples to apples boat with yamaha V6 300 with a Merc prop then you will outrun the Verado hands down. 2 knots is a cheap fix.
Phin I know they do not have the 4 stroke 175 but do you not think Yamaha will replace the 150 and 175 HPDI motors with a SHO 150 and 175? They are already replacing all HPDI motors and the only motor left is the 300HPDI and the 150 and 175.
From reds to marlin you got it.
2010 Key West Stealth (on Order)
That’s exactly what they did. The Yamahas are running the Mercury Mirage 23 propellers. Same ones they use on the Verado powered boats. It was still 2 knots slower.
But 2 knots on a boat like this is not a major deal for me. If I wanted mid 70’s speed I would have bought the 350 Yamahas and then how often can you actually use it in Charleston. In regards to the new 300’s I did not want to own the first of a new outboard and deal with all the updates that will inevitably come with them. The Verados seem to have all the bugs worked out and have mostly proven themselves reliable.
Service on a new motor is going to be a challenge no matter how many “dealers” are in the area. It
Fishman if you havent already go check out veradoclub.com there is enough information over there on verados to keep you busy for weeks. Glen knows of what he speaks and runs a good site.
If you have any questions about them let me know I may be able to help you out.
He said the 300SHO and 300Vrad’s on the same hull tested by yellowfin with the same identical props, and the mercs were faster. It’s a moot point whether there’s a better prop for the application if both brands and HP’s were tested with the identical merc props, and one was faster. There’s more to his decision than which motor was faster it sounds like though.
Also, Dixie said that yamaha, unlike merc, tests and works all the kinks out before releasing motors? You can’t be saying this with a straight face. I have a 200HPDI, and I like it a lot. However, I was scared to death to purchase it last year. It’s a 2001. How much longer do I have? From what I read, certain 200 HPDI’s blew powerheads, but the predominate ones blowing have been the 250’s and 300’s. Merc’s early optimaxes earned them the name poptimaxes, but since the 03/04 models, where have the problems been? There are some lemons from both brands, but I can tell you that there were a series of updates put out for my year model HPDI that involved changing spark plug types and the engine ECM. These were major updates done because 01 was the first year of my motor type or model. I can also tell you that when Yamaha put out the F350 people were waiting on backordered or non-existent steering arms/stabilizers for them for months. That’s a pretty important component for a motor developed and marketed almost specifically for applications where the steering stabilizers would be needed. Meanwhile, Vrad’s have built in heavy duty steering, and they’ve had it since they were ever put on the market… It would seem one company worked on this kink extensively while the other company paid no attention to it whatsoever.
Mercury seems to be constantly updating their stuff and pushing technology harder. On one hand you’re more often testing these motors for them by owning them to a greater extent and on the other hand you’re getting a motor that almost guaranteed to be better performing than the competition when you buy a verado. Two edged sword.
Well the SHO motors first of all will never be put on a offshore boat since they are the short shaft motors. Do you know why the HPDIs had problems? Ethanol in fuel fowling the injectors and blowing powerheads. Yamaha then came up with the series 2 motor. Updates were done on the HPDI motors so they would not have those problems and they worked. The V6 300 Yamaha is what this converstaion is about and it is the new offshore series that yamaha has come up with that is lighter more fuel efficient and faster. Also you asked why Yamaha has not updated the other V6 offshore series? Simple answer is why fix something that isn’t broke? Mercury focuses on speed with there motors while Yamaha focuses on reliablity. Yamaha motors are different then Mercury motors and should be propped differently there fore your answer to a moot point is that well its not moot because its two totally different motors. It is easy to carry an all around prop and put it on everything but not everyone wants an all around prop. Some people want top end, some people want hole shot, some people want less bow rise, and others want fuel efficiency. Phin also you mentioned the steering issue and if I am correct that was the biggest problem with Verados was there steering issue. I have yet to hear about an issue with the V8 steering.
SHO HP options
I got confused because you were talking about SHO yamaha’s filling the 175HP gap that yamaha has had. I have fished lots of boats that had F150’s that needed 175’s, but none were available in 4 stroke. When you responded that the SHO would take that place, I assumed that SHO was what you were calling the new yam 4 strokes.
SHO is just a bass boat motor is what you are saying now?
What are the new V6’s available with 25 and 30" shafts called? Still F250, F300, etc?
Yam vs. Merc. needing dif. props
You are right in that each motor is different. I could not agree more. I see what you’re saying. Different props will benefit the speed motor while other props will benefit the midrange economy or stronger holeshot motor, etc. Still, however, if we are comparing top speeds, which was the only thing being compared by the statement, then the props are what they are, and the top speed is what it is. The thing I think we both are missing in the discussion specifically regarding the top speed comparison is that if Yam wasn’t taching out or the merc wasn’t taching out as intended by each manufacturer, then the performance won’t be showing up as good as it could have been. You have a great point when I realize this.
If the vrads have a max RPM of 6500 (just making this up for discussion) and the yams have a max RPM of 6000 before the computer cuts them out, then you’re going to have dif. top speed with the same props if both motors can turn the props up to those redlines. Hopefully, yellowfin is not doing such a thing indefinately instead of trying dif. props. And also, hopefully yellowfin tries to set each boat up as good as possible for what the customer wants to do with it. From what I have read and heard from everyone, that is what they try to do, and the motors they know most about happen to be the merc verado’s because they’ve been able to hang more on more of their boats due to the verado’s not being in their first year of production.
Well We looked at Yellowfin as a possible boat to replace Venture and like Venture they push a lot more for Mercury due to speed and Mercury also due to them selling more mercs they get better deals on a merc. Now I am not going to say they are pushing mercs over yamahas because they prefer them or they make more money on them but that type of business happens a lot throughout the marine industry. Now back to the prop issue. If you take a 36 Yellowfin and put twin 300 Verados and you slap some mirages on the back and the customer likes it but wants to try the Yamaha then they should spend a day finding the right prop for the boat especially for the price. A Yamaha prop may turn another series of props better then the Verados and vice versa. If a customer came to me and bought a 300k boat I would spend a day tuning the motors to make sure I put the right prop on the boat because believe it or not a prop will make or break a boat especially one built for speed and running offshore. I would even try one of the four blade props for more lift. To me them slapping the standard Mirage on a 300K+ boat for a demo is crap. Now I agree about the suzuki not being recommended especially for offshore applications but the reason yellowfin does not recommend them is because they are slow.
Now I do not like the term bass boat motor used with the SHO because people think that it is a freshwater motor but it is only a short shaft just like the VMAX HPDI. If you ever get a chance to go out on a bay boat rigged with an SHO and it has a non vented Merc Prop ie fury, tempest, or Bravo 1 pro xs (my favorite) then you will see why Yamaha is going to be the future for bass boats and competitive redfisherman.
Yellowfin spent well over a week trying numerous sets of props to find the best fit. Turns out the same ones they use on the Verado boats were also the best on the Yamaha boats. The Yamaha guys where there and involved. Obviously they want the best being some of the first engines running.
I also did a lot of research. Yellowfin is very up front with you regarding price. You have to remember you are buying a package that includes engines. So it really doesn’t matter what the engine cost is. They will allow you to supply your own engines. So I priced them out through numerous distributors and obviously Yellowfins package price was by far the best when you subtract out engine cost. Yes I know the wholesale / boat builder cost of the motors and controls. Just to be clear they did not push anything with me. It was more what engine package do you want? They went over both.
The Yamaha’s are nice but the Verados have a lot more options regarding controls. The 350’s both Yamaha and Verado are a very large price increase for just about 3-5 knots. I could not justify it, but many do. Plus if you want a Yamaha boat you are going to wait almost twice as long because they cannot get engines.
I would have to get the verado, if for no other reason than it sounds awesome and I also perfer merc on fast boats. Check out the lightning making contact with the boat. I copied this vid off The Hull Truth…http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsVNTwdHASY
Yellowfin spent well over a week trying numerous sets of props to find the best fit. Turns out the same ones they use on the Verado boats were also the best on the Yamaha boats. The Yamaha guys where there and involved. Obviously they want the best being some of the first engines running.
I also did a lot of research. Yellowfin is very up front with you regarding price. You have to remember you are buying a package that includes engines. So it really doesn’t matter what the engine cost is. They will allow you to supply your own engines. So I priced them out through numerous distributors and obviously Yellowfins package price was by far the best when you subtract out engine cost. Yes I know the wholesale / boat builder cost of the motors and controls. Just to be clear they did not push anything with me. It was more what engine package do you want? They went over both.
The Yamaha’s are nice but the Verados have a lot more options regarding controls. The 350’s both Yamaha and Verado are a very large price increase for just about 3-5 knots. I could not justify it, but many do. Plus if you want a Yamaha boat you are going to wait almost twice as long because they cannot get engines.
Time will tell.
My competitor down here sells Yellowfin and contender. He claims the new f300 outruns the Verados hands down. May want to get a second opinion.
The new high performance Yamaha fourstrokes use a plasma applied cylinder liner that replaces conventional steel liners. The advantage is lighter weight and larger displacement from the same block dimensions. The problem is that this is a totally new technology for outboard motors. BMW tried the plasma lining thing a few years back in certain car engines and have since discontinued it. ??? Ford is trying it now on a number of car engines using a patented application technology but the jury is still out on it’s long term reliability. From what I know there is no way of repairing a damaged cylinder should a problem occur. You can’t overbore and applying a new plasma coat would be so highly technical that I doubt it would be economically feasible. I suspect that a bad cylinder would mean a new block. The short story is that every manufacturer puts all of their new technology through extensive testing before it is marketed to the public, and yet bad designs still make it through. The question is, why would you risk tens of thousands of dollars on an unproven technology when a viable alternative is available?
Yellowfin spent well over a week trying numerous sets of props to find the best fit. Turns out the same ones they use on the Verado boats were also the best on the Yamaha boats. The Yamaha guys where there and involved. Obviously they want the best being some of the first engines running.
I also did a lot of research. Yellowfin is very up front with you regarding price. You have to remember you are buying a package that includes engines. So it really doesn’t matter what the engine cost is. They will allow you to supply your own engines. So I priced them out through numerous distributors and obviously Yellowfins package price was by far the best when you subtract out engine cost. Yes I know the wholesale / boat builder cost of the motors and controls. Just to be clear they did not push anything with me. It was more what engine package do you want? They went over both.
The Yamaha’s are nice but the Verados have a lot more options regarding controls. The 350’s both Yamaha and Verado are a very large price increase for just about 3-5 knots. I could not justify it, but many do. Plus if you want a Yamaha boat you are going to wait almost twice as long because they cannot get engines.
Time will tell.
My competitor down here sells Yellowfin and contender. He claims the new f300 outruns the Verados hands down. May want to get a second opinion.
From reds to marlin you got it.
Majek 20 Xtreme
Yamaha HP F150
Sorry but I know the owner of the boat with the new 300’s. I trust him much more than some boat dealer. Yellow
Texas sportfishing and yacht sales and Rockport Marine are both yellowfin dealers in the state of Texas. Wished I had Yamahas on the boat I was on yesterday when we broke down 60 miles offshore due to Mercury’s awesome computer system.
Texas sportfishing and yacht sales and Rockport Marine are both yellowfin dealers in the state of Texas. Wished I had Yamahas on the boat I was on yesterday when we broke down 60 miles offshore due to Mercury’s awesome computer system.