A while back yackman posted something to the effect of what gun should I get… everyone of course was more than happy to supply their input into the best hunting rifle in the woods but saltdog brought up bullet choice and shortly after the thread died. For me his point was more interesting, we spend all sorts of money on scopes, rifles, gear, cameras then we pick up a box of Winchester Power Points and head out the door.
Last night I found some ammo in the toothpaste drawer that my wife had left there after a hunt. I had to ask her why she bought some nosler ballistic tips .243 95 gr her reply was ?cause they have a pretty purple tip? these things wouldn?t penetrate a mature deer even if you helped push them through with a stick but they aren?t designed for that. That in turn brought me to my man cave where I found myself reorganizing the ammo shelves. I realized over the past 6 years I have started shooting all copper ammo mostly Barnes Bullets(black hills or federal) .223 .243 .260 .308. I even shoot it out of my handguns .460 .500. Am I a victim of advertising? Am I hippy at heart trying to save the world from lead poisoning 168 Gr’s at a time? I will say I have had great success with them blood trails galore, exit wounds of a respectable size (except for long range), and accuracy that I haven’t found in any other massed produced bullet manufacture (I don?t hand load). But at twice the cost of a conventional bullet have I just lost my (**() mind?
Even odder is that in my large caliber guns all I have is Nosler Partitions a round I shoot cause that?s what my dad shot according to him it has ?great penetration and that?s what you want in a big game rifle? I have recovered those bullets with only the lead base in tact the copper shell completely gone 250 gr bullets withered away to the core doesn?t necessarily scream “excellent bullet for penetration” but perhaps the speed of today?s guns are just too much for a bullet designed 65 years ago.
It leads me to the question what makes a great white tail hun
It all Matters. Bullet choice comes down to your use and caliber. For instance for white-tail in let’s say a 308, or 30-06 (Same caliber BULLET) or one of your larger faster rounds like a 7MM Mag or 300 RUM you should be focusing on expansion for the largest terminal damage. If your game was something bigger then you would possibly focus on penetration. If however your caliber was something smaller like maybe a .223 and your distance was the same (500 Yards) then you might want to consider ballistics characteristics rather than expansion, typically heavier solid, pointed bullets have better stability at longer ranges than let’s say a lead core-lokt bullet.
I shoot multiple rounds out of the same rifle depending on the purpose. I’m rather fond of the 30 calibers myself so for the range and practice i’ll reload 30 calibers using the same bullet for my 30-30, 30-06, and .308 since it’s purpose is only to punch a hole in paper over 100 yards or so and i’m not particularly concerned with extra small groupings. I’d never use that to hunt with though!
It’s also a FACT that some rifles prefer a type of ammo. You can have 2 of the exact same rifles, from the exact same factory and production run and one may shoot better with 150 grain federal crappo ammo, and the other with 180 grain winchester match quality. For most folks that’s not going to matter unless you are concerned with really long distances. What might be a 2 inch grouping at 100’yds could be 18 or higher at 800 yards for instance.
Did That answer your question or just ramble? I need coffee
Most all quality constructed hunting bullets will kill deer these days. I’ve shot a bit of everything, Nosler BT, Part, Accubond, Barnes, Bergers, Hornady A-Max, GMX, Interlocks, Sierra SPGK and HPGK, among others. I tend to get my best result in either the Nosler BT/AB or Hornady A-max, though the Bergers gave some tight .243 groups. I’ve never worried about the .243 exiting, they never take a step with a severed spine, blown up heart or scattered brains. If my gun won’t shoot under an inch, I sell it and find something that will. Conversely in my .308 and 7mm08 I use 165grn and 150grn Nosler BT and get massive, leaking holes mostly from animals that are DRT, one from my 7mmo8 entered the neck, transversed the body and exited the rear of the ribs, you could stick your fist in that hole.
For my personal tastes, the Barnes is a fantastic bullet but too heavily constructed for a SC whitetail, same with an Accubond. Most of the gilded metal bullets are. A 100-175lb whitetail doesn’t require a tough bullet with thick jackets and super controlled expansion for penetration to kill it. You need a bullet that delivers massive hydrostatic shock, moderate penetration and will hold together long enough to wreck the vitals.
The main thing is to get a good quality bullet that your rifle will shoot well. Practice with it out to the max ranges you will shoot so that you know exactly what it will do and gain confidence in it. It’s almost a guaranteed kill if you take a good bullet and put it in the vitals, deer don’t run off far with blown up hearts, lungs, spine or heads.
Mark
Pioneer 222 Sportfish Yamaha F300
Yeah, but do you consider a dog to be a filthy animal? I wouldn’t go so far as to call a dog filthy but they’re definitely dirty. But, a dog’s got personality. Personality goes a long way.
“Life’s tough…It’s even tougher if you’re stupid” John Wayne
Hornady SST and leverlution bullet from hand loads are deadly in my .243 .270 30.06 30.30 .44 mag and the muzzleloader .45 cal with a sabot. I swear by there projectiles.
I picked up a box of Barnes 180 grain for the 30-06. I can’t wait to see how a $3 bullet compares to the old faithful core locs .
quote:
Originally posted by docsordersI picked up a box of Barnes 180 grain for the 30-06. I can’t wait to see how a $3 bullet compares to the old faithful core locs .
If you’re shooting them at Whitetails, then you’ll be disappointed. Aim for bone.
Mark
Pioneer 222 Sportfish Yamaha F300
Yeah, but do you consider a dog to be a filthy animal? I wouldn’t go so far as to call a dog filthy but they’re definitely dirty. But, a dog’s got personality. Personality goes a long way.
“Life’s tough…It’s even tougher if you’re stupid” John Wayne
For thin skinned white tails you can use just about anything. I have killed well over 30 deer with ballistic tips and they do the job just fine. If I get the chance to hunt thicker skinned game such as elk, bear or anything in Africa I would step up to partitions or Barnes triple shock bullets. I would imagine if a poll was done far more deer have been killed with a cheap box of Remington core lockts than anything else.
21 BX Pro Sea Hunt
Yamaha 150 4 Stroke
I picked up the Barnes hoping that it would help with reaching out just past the 300yd threshold. I usually do aim for bone. The neck bone however when shooting over 250 yds I tend to aim at the vitals. With that said do you think the expansion would be adequate if shooting deer between 300- 375yds if shooting the vitals Mark?
I usually shoot 165 core loks and they have always done a good job out to about 250 yds for me.
The Barnes ammo has less projectile drop according to spec. On box. ???
I picked up the Barnes hoping that it would help with reaching out just past the 300yd threshold. I usually do aim for bone. The neck bone however when shooting over 250 yds I tend to aim at the vitals. With that said do you think the expansion would be adequate if shooting deer between 300- 375yds if shooting the vitals Mark?
I usually shoot 165 core loks and they have always done a good job out to about 250 yds for me.
The Barnes ammo has less projectile drop according to spec. On box. ???
The Barnes is an all copper/gilded metal bullet, they are hard and built for penetration in heavy hide and bone in that weight. A whitetail isn’t exactly heavy boned nor heavy hided animal, it is doubtful you will see the expansion and performance you would in larger or heavier game. Probably be hell on an old nast bo hog though. Any quality bullet would be adequate at that range, provided the shooter was able to put it on target.
Mark
Pioneer 222 Sportfish Yamaha F300
Yeah, but do you consider a dog to be a filthy animal? I wouldn’t go so far as to call a dog filthy but they’re definitely dirty. But, a dog’s got personality. Personality goes a long way.
“Life’s tough…It’s even tougher if you’re stupid” John Wayne
Barnes has “less projectile drop” because the bullet have a better BC than a fair amount of other bullets on the market . With that said they were also a little generous with their BC/drop rate when they came out so I would do some shooting and get real world numbers for the drop rate of your gun.
With Barnes I have never had a not bullet expand to some degree even with small stuff - this year I was shooting .243 with those txs 85 gr. and didnt have any issues with the 3 deer I shot with them. I was a little worried with how light the bullet was but haven’t had any issues. My normal hunting rifle is a .308 I shoot 168 gr txs black hills ammo with it. It shoots .5 moa and I’ve shot mulies (508 yards) and antlope (387 yards) and didnt have any issue with the bullet getting there. However the mule deer had to shoot twice at that range and then had to shoot it in the neck when I got close. The 2 bullets didnt penetrate very far at that range through the shoulder into the lung . I dont know if the bullet dosent carry enough energy at that range (1700 fps 1100 lb) or what but I woulden’t take that shot again with that rifle. The antlope when in and out big exit wound.
Key West Stealth
150 V-max
quote:
Originally posted by scbigben28For thin skinned white tails you can use just about anything. I have killed well over 30 deer with ballistic tips and they do the job just fine. If I get the chance to hunt thicker skinned game such as elk, bear or anything in Africa I would step up to partitions or Barnes triple shock bullets. I would imagine if a poll was done far more deer have been killed with a cheap box of Remington core lockts than anything else.
21 BX Pro Sea Hunt
Yamaha 150 4 Stroke
I would not disagree with that statement but would also say that more people have shot deer and not found them with a cheap box of remington core locks than anything else as well.
Key West Stealth
150 V-max
quote:
Originally posted by Flat BottomBarnes has “less projectile drop” because the bullet have a better BC than a fair amount of other bullets on the market . With that said they were also a little generous with their BC/drop rate when they came out so I would do some shooting and get real world numbers for the drop rate of your gun.
With Barnes I have never had a not bullet expand to some degree even with small stuff - this year I was shooting .243 with those txs 85 gr. and didnt have any issues with the 3 deer I shot with them. I was a little worried with how light the bullet was but haven’t had any issues. My normal hunting rifle is a .308 I shoot 168 gr txs black hills ammo with it. It shoots .5 moa and I’ve shot mulies (508 yards) and antlope (387 yards) and didnt have any issue with the bullet getting there. However the mule deer had to shoot twice at that range and then had to shoot it in the neck when I got close. The 2 bullets didnt penetrate very far at that range through the shoulder into the lung . I dont know if the bullet dosent carry enough energy at that range (1700 fps 1100 lb) or what but I woulden’t take that shot again with that rifle. The antlope when in and out big exit wound.Key West Stealth
150 V-max
Lots of difference between an 85grn Barnes TTSX and a 180grn TTSX. The .243 is going to expand and perform better just due to the sectional density/weight and nature of the bullet weight. The 85 is made for deer sized game.
I’ve never found the Barnes bullets to be particularly accurate or remarkable in any way. I get better results from Nosler and Hornady bullets. The last animal I shot with a Barnes TTSX was a 90lb doe at 80yds with a 7mmMag Ruger No.1, 160grn Tipped TSX. The shot was straight on, I shot her in the vertebrae, then the bullet traversed the length of
Just for info the Barnes 180 grain shot a little less than an inch n a half higher at 203 yds compared to 180 grain cor lok.
Remington rifle.
in the last two year’s I have lost three deer. Was looking for a better round than what I’ve used in the past.
Guess I’ll shot hogs with the Barnes.
Just for info the Barnes 180 grain shot a little less than an inch n a half higher at 203 yds compared to 180 grain cor lok.
Remington rifle.
in the last two year’s I have lost three deer. Was looking for a better round than what I’ve used in the past.
Guess I’ll shot hogs with the Barnes.
doc - shoot a deer with the Barnes and give us a report.
Salty it sounds like the bullet did what it should- a quarter is 24.26mm so the 7mm doubled in size plus some. But a 7mm mag is overkill - I shot a FL. deer ( maby 65 lbs) when I was 16 with a 7mm rem mag ( dont know the bullet) It took 5 rounds to kill this deer the frist went in behind the lungs and the shock of the bullet blew out the intestines. From there it gets even worse but I was using a cannon to kill a mouse. I was actually hunting a 500 lb pig but when you see a deer in South Florida its a treat.
Key West Stealth
150 V-max
I used Core-Lokts for many years and lost many deer. No blood trails, exit holes the same size as entrance holes, and searching for hours in the woods. After losing 3 deer last year, I switched to Hornady American Whitetail this year. I shoot a Remington 7400 30-06. All of my deer this year have been found, all with blood trails, nice exit wounds, and none further than 25 yards.
If you check out the reviews on the Core-Lokts in the last 5 years, they’ve obviously changed something in the bullet. Many people say the same things that I do.
quote:
Originally posted by Flat Bottomdoc - shoot a deer with the Barnes and give us a report.
Salty it sounds like the bullet did what it should- a quarter is 24.26mm so the 7mm doubled in size plus some. But a 7mm mag is overkill - I shot a FL. deer ( maby 65 lbs) when I was 16 with a 7mm rem mag ( dont know the bullet) It took 5 rounds to kill this deer the frist went in behind the lungs and the shock of the bullet blew out the intestines. From there it gets even worse but I was using a cannon to kill a mouse. I was actually hunting a 500 lb pig but when you see a deer in South Florida its a treat.
Key West Stealth
150 V-max
Oh, the bullet did it’s job and then some. But wrecking that much bone and tissue with a rather small exit for where it exited tells me there wasn’t a lot of expansion, but a lot of kinetic energy expended. I shoot that gun as more of a fun gun.
I tend to shoot a 7mm08 with a 150grn Nosler CT BT or standard BT these days at about 2700fps, it is absolutely deadly. Head shots are evacuations, high shoulder back the truck up, quartering look for a big hole on the opposite side. I just find the heavier weight BT’s at a modest velocity deliver exceptional results.
Mark
Pioneer 222 Sportfish Yamaha F300
Yeah, but do you consider a dog to be a filthy animal? I wouldn’t go so far as to call a dog filthy but they’re definitely dirty. But, a dog’s got personality. Personality goes a long way.
“Life’s tough…It’s even tougher if you’re stupid” John Wayne
quote:
Originally posted by ClemsurfI used Core-Lokts for many years and lost many deer. No blood trails, exit holes the same size as entrance holes, and searching for hours in the woods. After losing 3 deer last year, I switched to Hornady American Whitetail this year. I shoot a Remington 7400 30-06. All of my deer this year have been found, all with blood trails, nice exit wounds, and none further than 25 yards.
If you check out the reviews on the Core-Lokts in the last 5 years, they’ve obviously changed something in the bullet. Many people say the same things that I do.
I agree that core-lokt bullets are basically “Junk” but they do have 1 distinct advantage over other selections… You can almost always walk into Walmart and find them for “Common” calibers.
I like the american white-tail’s from Hornady, the price is right and they seem to be a good bullet.
Myself and 9 deer so far this season will disagree on the core lokts being “junk”. The ones that ran bled like stuck hogs and didn’t go far. Been shooting them for 14 years now and have no complaints, from 300yds to up close and personal. Saltydog loads his own so I understand why he may not like them since he can load a superior round to his spec. 3 deer lost in a year would be due to where you put the bullet, not the bullet itself, and Remington auto loading rifles have a pretty ****ty reputation as far accuracy is concerned.