I do know one thing about whether evolution is true or not. I believe we are in a spiritual and mental devolution in the World. Therefore, if there is devolution, there must be evolution. Just take a look at our political environment… Talk about going downhill, and the constituents on both sides, there is no scientific explanation for all the idiots running around today. Myself included …
RBF
Your an educated man DH, there is a very obvious scientific explanation for going downhill. It is the lack of natural selection in Man. Free Ice Cream, entitlement, and in some countries worsening educational systems has ended natural selection in Man.
“If Bruce Jenner can keep his wiener and be called a woman, I can keep my firearms and be considered disarmed.”
I do know one thing about whether evolution is true or not. I believe we are in a spiritual and mental devolution in the World. Therefore, if there is devolution, there must be evolution. Just take a look at our political environment… Talk about going downhill, and the constituents on both sides, there is no scientific explanation for all the idiots running around today. Myself included …
RBF
Your an educated man DH, there is a very obvious scientific explanation for going downhill. It is the lack of natural selection in Man. Free Ice Cream, entitlement, and in some countries worsening educational systems has ended natural selection in Man.
“If Bruce Jenner can keep his wiener and be called a woman, I can keep my firearms and be considered disarmed.”
There is natural selection in Man when you take the long view. Unlike the wild where it happens quickly, with Man and society it takes a while. There will be natural selection, and has been over time. War is natural selection, thugs in the streets, hackers stealing info, etc.
What you see now is Social Darwinism coupled with humanitarian efforts (free ice cream), and the ability to survive or thrive via a vote.
Why would we expect the physical laws to apply to him?
“Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!" - The Messiah
Why would we expect the physical laws to apply to him?
“Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!" - The Messiah
This one particular part is unavoidable…
-Albemarle 248xf “Chella”
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“Praise the lord and pass the ammunition” -Howell Forgy
That's not true... Have you ever heard the word "infinity"? Maybe it's the fact that humans want to frame thing into a reference that they understand...
Ever heard of the “Fine Tuned Universe Theory”? It’s the fact that all of the physical constants seem to be “finely tuned” for carbon based life forms… For example, the strength of force which binds nucleons to a nuclei is 0.007. If it were 0.006, then only hydrogen could exist (i.e. none of the other elements in the periodic table). There are literally dozens and dozens of these natural “constants” which represent the physical properties of the universe. If ANY of them varied slightly, no “life” would be ANYWHERE in the universe… As a matter of fact, it’s pretty much statistically impossible… I’ve heard numbers like “200+ known constants” and something like a “1 / trillion times a trillion, times a trillion (repeat this like 10 times)”. In other words, not only is EARTH very rare, the fact that the physical properties of the universe (gravity, the nature of light, etc) all play into making life possible, and if any ONE of those cosmological constants were off by a HAIR, then NO LIFE ANYWHERE. Hmmm…
Scientists have such a hard time reconciling this statistical impossibility, that they now put forth the “multi-verse” theory… That is, there must be an infinite amount of universes and we just happen to live in the one that was perfectly suitable for life… I guess that’s easy to imagine…
Oh yeah, and don’t forget that the universe is rapidly expanding… In a few million years things will be expanding so rapidly that we won’t even be able to see other galaxies, etc. Thus if humans had “evolved” just a few million years later, we wouldn’t even know other galaxies existed…
And how do we measure the composition of the sun? Well, it turns out that we are the only known planet that experiences a total solar eclipse where just a sliver of the “corona” exists. If the moon was smaller or further away from the earth, then too much light would get in and we could not measure the composition of the light. If it was much closer or bigger, same thing… Isn’t it odd that the ONLY planet
I would also like to point out how little humans understand about TIME (think theory of special relativity)… It’s been scientifically proven that the faster an object moves, the less time is experienced by that object. Our GPS satellites move so fast, that they “lose time”, and need to be re-calibrated to make up for this time shift. How can a human brain even comprehend this? If I recall, even Einstein himself did not believe his own calculations and implications when he first came up with the theory.
I propose that one day, scientists will come to generally understand that YOU and I experience time in completely different ways… That is… You and I have a conversation, but that conversation in your present was actually in my past… In other words, if time is like a book, you and I are a part of the same story board in the same book, but I might be at a different page. Freaky to think about, impossible to wrap your mind around, but totally plausible.
Are you trying to use science to prove a creator did this, hence the word of the creator, the bible?
Funny. the Title of this topic is that science can’t be used to disprove the bible. Yet you lean on it to try and give it credit.
And your take on science and the universe is so manipulated your conclusions are nothing more than a belief you want to be true. Your deductions and conclusions are rife with conjecture and assumptions.
Your argument about earth being the only planet to have this or that is true but that argument is merely an example of the above. I cannot disagree with it but the only other planets we can compare to are those in our own solar system. We can’t see extra-solar planets, yet. But “Science” is using observations and calculations (peer reviewed and reproducible) in discovering more and more (thousands so far) of planets orbiting other stars. And that is from just looking at one small patch in the sky. As time goes by and “science” (not a manufactured belief to make us feel good about ourselves) is used to discover more of our universe my “belief” is that we will find other planets with similar characteristics for life.
And life out there may not be like ours, I “believe” it is likely not. But it would still be life, just different. For good examples just consider the extremophiles here on earth. The creatures living without sun or air and at very high temperatures at the bottom of the ocean. Or the creatures that live in anaerobic sulfuric vents around volcanoes. That life is different from us, yet it thrives.
Yes, I know, you will say the great creator’s wisdom sought to show diversity. Go ahead, if that makes you feel better. I prefer to “believe” the truth is what we discover through exploration and examination, not just what we want it to be.
That's not true... Have you ever heard the word "infinity"? Maybe it's the fact that humans want to frame thing into a reference that they understand...
I disagree. Evenin the infinite cycle something has to start to continue. Physical or non physical something still has to begin.
-Albemarle 248xf “Chella”
-Dolphin 18BC Pro
-Miscellaneous boats
“Praise the lord and pass the ammunition” -Howell Forgy
That's not true... Have you ever heard the word "infinity"? Maybe it's the fact that humans want to frame thing into a reference that they understand...
I disagree. Evenin the infinite cycle something has to start to continue. Physical or non physical something still has to begin.
-Albemarle 248xf “Chella”
-Dolphin 18BC Pro
-Miscellaneous boats
“Praise the lord and pass the ammunition” -Howell Forgy
Ok, so where did matter come from? Where did the mass that makes up "the big bang" come from? Where did energy come from?
Are you trying to use science to prove a creator did this, hence the word of the creator, the bible?
Funny. the Title of this topic is that science can’t be used to disprove the bible. Yet you lean on it to try and give it credit.
And your take on science and the universe is so manipulated your conclusions are nothing more than a belief you want to be true. Your deductions and conclusions are rife with conjecture and assumptions.
Your argument about earth being the only planet to have this or that is true but that argument is merely an example of the above. I cannot disagree with it but the only other planets we can compare to are those in our own solar system. We can’t see extra-solar planets, yet. But “Science” is using observations and calculations (peer reviewed and reproducible) in discovering more and more (thousands so far) of planets orbiting other stars. And that is from just looking at one small patch in the sky. As time goes by and “science” (not a manufactured belief to make us feel good about ourselves) is used to discover more of our universe my “belief” is that we will find other planets with similar characteristics for life.
And life out there may not be like ours, I “believe” it is likely not. But it would still be life, just different. For good examples just consider the extremophiles here on earth. The creatures living without sun or air and at very high temperatures at the bottom of the ocean. Or the creatures that live in anaerobic sulfuric vents around volcanoes. That life is different from us, yet it thrives.
Yes, I know, you will say the great creator’s wisdom sought to show diversity. Go ahead, if that makes you feel better. I prefer to “believe” the truth is what we discover through exploration and examination, not just what we want it to be.
Island boy, draw a circle. Tell me where the beginning and end of the circle are.
Every organism we know of has a beginning and end but the particles that make them don’t die. Energy and mass never increase or decrease. The “beginning” of our universe may have been the big bang but what exploded? The compressed remnants of the previous universe? Science doesn’t have all the answers…yet. And in all likelihood will never have ALL the answers. But for now I think most sane people will agree that science does find actual answers. If it didn’t we wouldn’t be living longer lives, driving warp speed hunks of metal wherever we want to go, and talking to each other with invisible and inaudible signals across vast distances.
The thing I find interesting is how everyone has a reasonably high level of trust in their possessions, which are a byproduct of science, performing their task but if that same science they clearly rely upon daily cast a shadow on their faith they get very uncomfortable. The Bible was written by? Man. Do men lie? Yes, even the Bible says so. So why do you trust the writings of somebody you don’t know, in a language you cant read, from a place you’ve never been, about people you’ve never met, about events 2000 years ago.
Have you ever played the telephone game? The bible is a 2000 year old telephone game with different governments, eras, languages, etc possibly changing the story.
Also keep in mind if you took our current scientific discoveries and went pack in time even just 100 years a modern man could easily be described as god-like.
And apart from all of that if you just want to believe in a higher being, why Christianity? Oh because your parents or neighbor told you Christianity was the answer you were looking for. What exactly differentiates the legitimacy of Christianity from all the other religions of the world?
That's not true... Have you ever heard the word "infinity"? Maybe it's the fact that humans want to frame thing into a reference that they understand...
I disagree. Evenin the infinite cycle something has to start to continue. Physical or non physical something still has to begin.
-Albemarle 248xf “Chella”
-Dolphin 18BC Pro
-Miscellaneous boats
“Praise the lord and pass the ammunition” -Howell Forgy
Ok, so where did matter come from? Where did the mass that makes up "the big bang" come from? Where did energy come from?
Fact is, you made that up and you are incorrect.
Made what up?.... nevermind..
-Albemarle 248xf “Chella”
-Dolphin 18BC Pro
-Miscellaneous boats
“Praise the lord and pass the ammunition” -Howell Forgy
Your argument about earth being the only planet to have this or that is true but that argument is merely an example of the above. I cannot disagree with it but the only other planets we can compare to are those in our own solar system.
You don't have to know every planet... Just calculate the STATISTICAL CHANCES...
There is a lot more to just the “distance between the earth and the sun”… Also consider:
<> Composition of Earth
<> Size of Earth and affect of gravity. If earth was much bigger, only small (short) organisms could form. If earth was smaller, then no atmosphere.
<> Size of sun
<> Age of sun
<> Size of moon.
<> Distance of moon from earth. Closer or further has HUGE implications on tides, gravitational field, affect on meteor protection. There is a reason that the moon is beaten up with craters and the Earth only has a few!!!
<> Position of sun in our galaxy (between dense “arms” of the milky way)
<> Liquid center of Earth
<> Thickness of Earth’s crust
<> Heck, even the spectrum of visible light… What if the only thing that existed was UV light?
That’s only a SMALL portion… There are literally hundreds of these and more are being discovered every day…
Island boy, draw a circle. Tell me where the beginning and end of the circle are.
Every organism we know of has a beginning and end but the particles that make them don’t die. Energy and mass never increase or decrease. The “beginning” of our universe may have been the big bang but what exploded? The compressed remnants of the previous universe? Science doesn’t have all the answers…yet. And in all likelihood will never have ALL the answers. But for now I think most sane people will agree that science does find actual answers. If it didn’t we wouldn’t be living longer lives, driving warp speed hunks of metal wherever we want to go, and talking to each other with invisible and inaudible signals across vast distances.
The thing I find interesting is how everyone has a reasonably high level of trust in their possessions, which are a byproduct of science, performing their task but if that same science they clearly rely upon daily cast a shadow on their faith they get very uncomfortable. The Bible was written by? Man. Do men lie? Yes, even the Bible says so. So why do you trust the writings of somebody you don’t know, in a language you cant read, from a place you’ve never been, about people you’ve never met, about events 2000 years ago.
Have you ever played the telephone game? The bible is a 2000 year old telephone game with different governments, eras, languages, etc possibly changing the story.
Also keep in mind if you took our current scientific discoveries and went pack in time even just 100 years a modern man could easily be described as god-like.
And apart from all of that if you just want to believe in a higher being, why Christianity? Oh because your parents or neighbor told you Christianity was the answer you were looking for. What exactly differentiates the legitimacy of Christianity from all the othe
Have you ever played the telephone game? The bible is a 2000 year old telephone game with different governments, eras, languages, etc possibly changing the story.
Actually the oldest book in the Bible (Job) is about 3800 years old. There are so many external references to scripture in the Bible, you could destroy every last copy of the book and stitch it back together again… Also, there are so many copies of the Bible that have been circulating for so long that it would be impossible to “change” it without people knowing about it. Even the earliest copies of the “Old Testament” were held up amongst the discover of the “Dead Sea Scrolls”… Google “Dead Sea Scrolls” and see what implications it has on the accuracy of the Bible and the ability to preserve it’s original text.
quote:
And apart from all of that if you just want to believe in a higher being, why Christianity? Oh because your parents or neighbor told you Christianity was the answer you were looking for. What exactly differentiates the legitimacy of Christianity from all the other religions of the world?
1) Christianity is the only "Grace based" religion... All other religion is "works based".
2) If you read\study the Bible, you will see that the measure of universal *TRUTH* outshines any other mainstream religion. Truth in teaching and truth in claims. For example, Islam claimed that Jerusalem was the original site of Mecca and that is where Mohammed went up to heaven. Fortunately, there are literally over a million Jewish artifacts present there, and ZERO islamic artifacts of that time perio
I would also like to point out how little humans understand about TIME (think theory of special relativity)… It’s been scientifically proven that the faster an object moves, the less time is experienced by that object. Our GPS satellites move so fast, that they “lose time”, and need to be re-calibrated to make up for this time shift. How can a human brain even comprehend this? If I recall, even Einstein himself did not believe his own calculations and implications when he first came up with the theory.
I propose that one day, scientists will come to generally understand that YOU and I experience time in completely different ways… That is… You and I have a conversation, but that conversation in your present was actually in my past… In other words, if time is like a book, you and I are a part of the same story board in the same book, but I might be at a different page. Freaky to think about, impossible to wrap your mind around, but totally plausible.
Since you brought up time and relativity, here’s a related weird thought.
If the soul leaves the body as energy or some form of light, that would mean that for the soul, time as we know it does not advance. Instead it stops. If that is so then every soul that has left a human body from the beginning of time until now, all have crossed over into the same frozen moment.
Furthermore every soul presently in the living, as well as the souls of everyone yet to come, will cross over into that very same frozen moment that souls enter.
In other words the soul of the first man and the soul of the last man, will share that same moment as if it had just occurred for all of them.
That weird thought of course depends on two things. 1 that time stops at the speed of light, and 2 that the soul of man is com
Or, better yet, let’s talk about quantum entanglement which is purely a thought from the scientific community. The theory is that I can take a particle, and split it into “entangled” photons, and then put those photons on opposite sides of the galaxy, light years apart… Yet, when I change the spin state of particle A, the state of particle B is instantaneously affected. Thus, this “information” somehow transcends what we understand of the natural world…
Let’s be honest… Most of us here understand the physical universe about as well as a 2 dimensional PACMAN (yes, the video game) understands our 3 dimensional world. How could humans even pretend to comprehend what a 4th or 5th dimension would look like?
A circle cannot be drawn without a starting point. I am not attacking anones beliefs.
I agree with what you have said and I believe a lot is lost in translation in all forms.
My question was something I have simply wondered and knew had no answer I could recieve here.
Island boy, as you stated “I have simply wondered and knew had no answer I could recieve here.” gives me a sense that you are searching but deeper you have already given up. So I won’t give you an answer, just a personal thought. I was brought up Southern Baptist and when I joined the service sampled many different offshoots of Christianity and others. I still have my faith and pray everyday. I believe in GOD and will continue to everyday of my life. As I look at the sky, trees, flowers, and nature in general no way did chaos create our Universe. We have chaos in it, but it had to be created by intervention. My belief is GOD. I like the Bible and it’s teachings on living. (NEW Testament). I KNOW if more followed the Bible, we would have less crime and more morality in life. I also know this will not happen. GOD gave man free will and many choose that will to do evil or maybe worse nothing but cry about entitlement and hide their talents.
One other thing I know, GOD doesn’t want us to be unhappy and loves humor. The one I struggle with is why GOD let’s bad things happen, I chalk it up to the big test we live day to day to see if we are worthy of the reward.
If I’m wrong no harm done, If I’m right… Wow, I get a lifetime of the best hunting, fishing, and… QUESTIONS ANSWERED.
Take care Island Boy.
“If Bruce Jenner can keep his wiener and be called a woman, I can keep my firearms and be considered disarmed.”
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