quote:
quote: But who carries $475 in their pocket when dove hunting anyway? That's absurd!Capt. Larry Teuton Swamp WorshiperPeople that know they’ve baited a field…
</font id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”>That’s what I was thinking too.
Capt. Larry Teuton
Swamp Worshiper
A couple of years ago I was working in my shop, ripping mahogany on a table saw. Every time I ran a board, a peacock in a tree down the driveway screamed. It was a neighbor’s, but it got around. So I’m out there building a boat and 2 police cars come flying up to the house with blue lights. I ain’t done nothing wrong. What the h@ll?
They said they had a 911 call of a woman screaming for help back here. I said no sir, that’s just a peacock. They insisted on looking in the house. I said go ahead. They did. Then they wanted to look all over the property. I said Sirs, you are wasting your time, it’s just a peacock in a tree and I can prove it. If one of you will walk down this driveway about 100 yards, and another stays here and watches me, I’ll show you exactly what it is. One pair went down the drive, one pair stayed with me. I fired up the saw and ripped a board, and the peacock screamed on cue. Everybody laughed 
But what if it really had been a woman screaming for help? What if it was my wife? Or your daughter? They are welcome here anytime.
Capt. Larry Teuton
Swamp Worshiper
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Originally posted by natureboyWhat happened to the laws about probable cause and warrants with the DNR?
The fourth amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America DOES NOT APPLY TO DNR.
That’s the point I’m making. No one seems to recognize this as an issue and it baffles me.
They do not require probable cause. They can come on private property as they deem fit. We the people have given up this right to them and believe me, the day when police no longer need probable cause to search you and your belongings is coming…we are allowing our rights to be slowly taken away by not standing up for ourselves.
It is my understanding that the federal baiting law has an intent component to it. If you are placing bait with the intention to draw birds to the gun, it is illegal. If you have a bird feeder to draw birds just to watch and later decide to hunt the parcel, all bait must be removed at least ten days before the hunt.
As far as baiting turkeys and state law goes, if there is a feeder 2 miles away but on the same legal parcel that you are hunting, you can get cited for hunting over bait. Similarly, if you are hunting turkeys and you are aware or should reasonably be aware that they are being attracted to bait on an adjoining property, you can be cited.
As to game wardens entering property, as far as I can discern from state codes and regs, a warden must have a reasonable suspicion that a crime is being committed or that hunting or fishing is in progress to enter private property. There is a specific state law that says a warden cannot be charged with trespassing but any arrest or charge a warden makes while just wandering onto private property without first having reasonable cause may not be a legal arrest or charge.
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Originally posted by Palmetto Bug There is a specific state law that says a warden cannot be charged with trespassing but any arrest or charge a warden makes while just wandering onto private property without first having reasonable cause may not be a legal arrest or charge.
The judge in colleton county certainly doesn’t abide by this…
Where is this law that you speak of?
To the OP, if you had used the sunflower seeds from what was grown in the field(not placed in a bucket) no problem. By bringing in seeds you baited the field. I’d be mad at the person that planted the field…wink!
When I was in school in Columbia S.C., I had the great pleasure of going duck hunting with Mongo. He had a leased pond/swamp in Pelion that was like what I imagine Arkansas to be. The most beautiful place I ever duck hunted. There was no baiting needed because the next property was owned by a guy who loved ducks and planted for them…and didn’t hunt. A dispute over the lease resulted in SOMEBODY dumping 50lbs of corn back in a corner of the pond/swamp we didn’t hunt. I wasn’t there but the GW’s took everything and closed the pond for the season.
Either somebody saw you put the sunflower seed in and called, or, you PO’ed somebody for not inviting them. It’s your land but the birds belong to the government.
This is not a new concept. It’s known as the “Open Fields Doctrine” and basically states that there is no reasonable expectation to privacy in open lands or fields. This has been back by the US Supreme Court, so basically anything on private property that extends beyond something of daily use for the actual dwelling could be subject to a warrantless search. The Fourth Amendment deals with an expectation of privacy, and the courts say open lands are not treated with the same strict regulations as searches of homes.
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Originally posted by 23Sailfishquote:
Originally posted by natureboyWhat happened to the laws about probable cause and warrants with the DNR?
The fourth amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America DOES NOT APPLY TO DNR.
That’s the point I’m making. No one seems to recognize this as an issue and it baffles me.
They do not require probable cause. They can come on private property as they deem fit. We the people have given up this right to them and believe me, the day when police no longer need probable cause to search you and your belongings is coming…we are allowing our rights to be slowly taken away by not standing up for ourselves.
Alright more information.
First issue: Preparing a field. This is to assign responsibility to the person who baited the field.
IE: Owner baits a field, doesn’t hunt, invites guesses and does not tell them the field is baited. The hunters are involved in an illegal activity due to actions of other party. Early morning shoot, should the hunter have to go predawn with flashlights and inspect the field? According to DNR, Yes they should.
So end of the issue, I preformed an illegal act. 30# over 7 acres and shot ON the 10th day instead of the 11th. This is nothing short of a chicken **** ticket, this is why warnings and such exist.
It is legal to spread bait. However it must be MORE than 10 days after the last application of a baiting substance. I will be calling the DNR to come and inspect when I throw seed, and demand they are there EVERY DAY to reinspect for the 10 days. On the 11th, there will be a shoot and again I will DEMAND the officers be there to inspect everything. I can not stop them from being on property but I can run them to death.
Second issue, DNR having access to your land. DNR should have a fairly wide ability to “follow the game”. I understand that, however during my whole event I caught them walking under my equipment sheds, inside workshop which contains my “home”. What reason do they have for doing that? When I questioned them they simply said, “we owe you any kind of explanation…” BULL****. To search structures, vehicles, storage facilities, or my place of residence should require at least an explanation of probable cause. DNR is not above the law.
At the end of this, I am early 40’s, been a sportsman since I was 4-5 years old. This is the second ticket I have ever gotten, the first was for not having running lights on three minutes after legal dark, in July, on a Wednesday, on Goose creek reservoir. I thought the $385.00 fine was a bit steep, was told by the judge that I could pay the clerk or she was going to double the fine.
DNR is doing a fine job
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I will be calling the DNR to come and inspect when I throw seed, and demand they are there EVERY DAY to reinspect for the 10 days. On the 11th, there will be a shoot and again I will DEMAND the officers be there to inspect everything. I can not stop them from being on property but I can run them to death.
Please take this as constructive advice, no offense meant, but you are using the wrong approach. Demanding anything out of the Government is a losing battle and they don’t take commands very well. If they come, they will come pissed off and that’s not a good start. Instead of approaching it that way, make friends with the DNR officer and invite him to the shoot. I’ve been on quite a few where we have done that.
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DNR is doing a fine job of making an enemy out of me.
Have you tried making friends with them? They aren’t the enemy, they are doing their job. Once they get to know you, they will trust you. That’s how I look at it anyway, and it works for me
Capt. Larry Teuton
Swamp Worshiper
" shot ON the 10th day instead of the 11th "
You would have had to shoot ON the 11th day…AFTER…the complete removal of all the bait, NOT the 11th day after placing the bait.
Cracker, I have made every effort to extend an open hand to these guys. Called and asked to meet with them. Discussed topics like coyote and wild hog problems. Asked them call me if there was questions, have called them about odd events going on. They walk in slap me with a fine, embarrass and threaten my guest over a very minor, very trivial matter. Insult taken.
I do not agree with the lay down and talk it from these guys. That is EXACTLY why they think they can impose their attitude instead of the law.
Stlhunr, not according to what they said to me. If your put bait out, wait a full 10 days, then you can hunt if there is still bait there then it is what it is. And yes I recorded the whole conversation so when these revenue collectors return saying that isn’t what was said…
Regardless of what the DNR guys told you, according to the Baiting Laws hunting 11 days after baiting an area is still hunting in a baited area…unless all the bait was eaten/removed on the day it was placed there.
( page 75 of Rules & Regulations. Baiting laws )
For how long?
An area is considered baited for ten days following the complete removal of all salt, grain or other feed.
You recorded it?
I’m beginning to get the feeling that you got the stiff treatment because you were being hard to deal with or obnoxious.
As family of DNR, and personal friends with most of them, they’re far from unreasonable…until you give them a reason to be.
Wadmalaw native
16’ Bentz-Craft Flats Boat
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Originally posted by ReelShockCracker, I have made every effort to extend an open hand to these guys. Called and asked to meet with them. Discussed topics like coyote and wild hog problems. Asked them call me if there was questions, have called them about odd events going on. They walk in slap me with a fine, embarrass and threaten my guest over a very minor, very trivial matter. Insult taken.
I do not agree with the lay down and talk it from these guys. That is EXACTLY why they think they can impose their attitude instead of the law.
My situation was 99% similar. I was asking for help, asking for advice on wildlife management. They refused to help me. Not anymore, I’m done with these clowns.
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Originally posted by leadenwahboyYou recorded it?
I’m beginning to get the feeling that you got the stiff treatment because you were being hard to deal with or obnoxious.
As family of DNR, and personal friends with most of them, they’re far from unreasonable…until you give them a reason to be.
Wadmalaw native
16’ Bentz-Craft Flats Boat
100% agree. Reelshock you are guilty, 30lbs or 300 you baited the field and you got caught, good on SCDNR. 10 days after the complete removal of bait, that’s the law, written in print dude. The regs are easy to interpret and follow.
I recorded the conversation, without saying anything about it. I record a lot of conversations simply because I have a terrible memory.
As a rule, I do not argue or be confrontational at all with a LOE. First you will NEVER win the argument. Also I have a State Trooper who works with me and was standing there the while time. He was good on how it was handled from my side. He is PISSED with the DNR.
Leadenwahboy:
I have know many DNR, always held them in the highest regard. In the past few years, like many government agencies, the ability to “self fund” seems to be influencing too many decisions.
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Originally posted by ReelShockI recorded the conversation, without saying anything about it. I record a lot of conversations simply because I have a terrible memory.
As a rule, I do not argue or be confrontational at all with a LOE. First you will NEVER win the argument. Also I have a State Trooper who works with me and was standing there the while time. He was good on how it was handled from my side. He is PISSED with the DNR.
Leadenwahboy:
I have know many DNR, always held them in the highest regard. In the past few years, like many government agencies, the ability to “self fund” seems to be influencing too many decisions.
What happens at a governmental level does not change the officer’s reason and logic. Interpretation of a law is not his job, enforcement of it is. I’ve been on all sides of experiences with them many a time, but I’ve heard thousands more. They’re sportsmen who uphold the law. They may not agree with it or believe it’s right or wrong, but they have to enforce it. They have the latitude to provide you a warning if they see the error isn’t intentional or is just misunderstood, such as in your case. A trivial matter. That’s what warnings are for and they like to use them. They like to educate over anything.
Sorry this happened, and the officer could have been in the wrong of course, but just know that they’re not out there to “drum up money.” They’re out there to make contact. That’s it. Make contact with people and see what’s going on.
Wadmalaw native
16’ Bentz-Craft Flats Boat
I’m afraid mister reelshock is going to be in for a real shock from DNR in the future. Once they have you on their radar, you’re always going to be subject to a surprise visit.
Managing a dove field is not rocket science, but you’ve always got to be thinking, what if? The field should have been inspected prior, if you observed sf seed, and the plants didn’t make, there’s a problem. It simply would have taken is a couple passes with a disc, and the seed would have been all but covered.
Getting pissed off at DNR, and saying you’re going to make enemies with them is not the sportsman’s way to handle the situation. You were caught, pay the fine , learn from your mistakes and move on. If you are really adamant on trying to have the law changed, contact your State Representative, he or she will get wayyyyy further than you and your personal war with DNR and a certain agent.
They cant catch all the ones cheating, and a lot do, but for those who play by the rules, it makes our day.
I absolutely disagree with this under our current system of penalties.
Example:
Being the possession of a red that is over slot is illegal.
Having one fish 1/8" over, warning.
having one fish 2" over, medium fine.
having the limit of fish, all 36" fish, large fine.
having any of these as a second offence, BIG BIG fines.
The level of disregard for the law does and should effect the case in front of the LEO.
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Originally posted by salty849quote:
Originally posted by leadenwahboyYou recorded it?
I’m beginning to get the feeling that you got the stiff treatment because you were being hard to deal with or obnoxious.
As family of DNR, and personal friends with most of them, they’re far from unreasonable…until you give them a reason to be.
Wadmalaw native
16’ Bentz-Craft Flats Boat
100% agree. Reelshock you are guilty, 30lbs or 300 you baited the field and you got caught, good on SCDNR. 10 days after the complete removal of bait, that’s the law, written in print dude. The regs are easy to interpret and follow.
quote:Are you saying the 30lbs of SF seed you broadcast should be considered the 1/8" over limit fine?
Originally posted by ReelShockI absolutely disagree with this under our current system of penalties.
Example:
Being the possession of a red that is over slot is illegal.
Having one fish 1/8" over, warning.
having one fish 2" over, medium fine.
having the limit of fish, all 36" fish, large fine.
having any of these as a second offence, BIG BIG fines.The level of disregard for the law does and should effect the case in front of the LEO.
quote:
Originally posted by salty849quote:
Originally posted by leadenwahboyYou recorded it?
I’m beginning to get the feeling that you got the stiff treatment because you were being hard to deal with or obnoxious.
As family of DNR, and personal friends with most of them, they’re far from unreasonable…until you give them a reason to be.
Wadmalaw native
16’ Bentz-Craft Flats Boat
100% agree. Reelshock you are guilty, 30lbs or 300 you baited the field and you got caught, good on SCDNR. 10 days after the complete removal of bait, that’s the law, written in print dude. The regs are easy to interpret and follow.