SCDNR is mailing out letters to last years permit holders in good standing for an opportunity to participate in the 2nd annual eradication of the big stinky birds. According to the letter, all of those who participated last year that didn’t have any issues/violations and sent in their paperwork after it was over like they were supposed to will receive a letter.
If you didn’t receive a letter and you did as you were supposed to do last year, you can call Darrell ****es @ 843-734-3938.
Any one know how many of those birds were killed last year? I personally did not participate but was on the water fishing 4 or 5 times during the “season” and heard plenty of shooting.
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They put out a report with the data they received back. I can not remember the totals and from what I heard, there were a lot of people who didn’t fill out their kill sheets after it was over, so the numbers were not accurate. I can say that they are tough birds and aren’t too easy to bring down and I was shooting them in the Bonneau area, so I didn’t kill that many. I heard the birds were thicker on the other side of the lake in the angels landing and diversion canal area… I imagine the data on last years hunt is publicly available if you ask for it.
There is no scientific evidence proving that killing hundreds or thousands of native birds is effective.comorants have been around the area long before the lakes were formed.
Good example of anglers crying loudly enough,to influence politicians enough,then DNR has to create a “season” without doing the homework.
Voodoo science was produced.The guides on the lakes,and lobbyist for the beer industry have won.Clearly someone got in the head of DNRs deputy director.
quote:
Originally posted by poke saladThere is no scientific evidence proving that killing hundreds or thousands of native birds is effective.comorants have been around the area long before the lakes were formed.
Good example of anglers crying loudly enough,to influence politicians enough,then DNR has to create a “season” without doing the homework.
Voodoo science was produced.The guides on the lakes,and lobbyist for the beer industry have won.Clearly someone got in the head of DNRs deputy director.
So poke, you think we need the numbers of Cormorants we have? They don’t really have many natural predators and Science or not, if you run our rivers, lakes, and sounds you can easily see that Cormorants are a major nuisance. Just opening a dialog, I see you don’t like the effort to thin out our Cormorants and I do. 
If you want to talk voodoo science talk about the Imaginary number of triger fish the SMCA came up with to close that fishery. Sorry for putting fish on the hunting forum… just an analogy.
If there were scientific evidence that comorants were depleting the fish stock in the lakes,then I would have a diferent opinion.As it stands now,anglers and guides have blown smoke up the appropriate vents,which influence the directors at DNR to create a "season ". It’s complete bull****.
There are many nuisance animals around,hawks,owls,eagles bother my duck hunting.Flipper is a nuisance to my creek fishing,cudas are a nuisance to my reef fishing,mockingbirds are a nuisance to my garden.I don’t see how you justify destroying thousands of native birds,only because they’re a nuisance ?
Show me the scientific evidence.
quote:
Originally posted by poke saladIf there were scientific evidence that comorants were depleting the fish stock in the lakes,then I would have a diferent opinion.As it stands now,anglers and guides have blown smoke up the appropriate vents,which influence the directors at DNR to create a "season ". It’s complete bull****.
There are many nuisance animals around,hawks,owls,eagles bother my duck hunting.Flipper is a nuisance to my creek fishing,cudas are a nuisance to my reef fishing,mockingbirds are a nuisance to my garden.I don’t see how you justify destroying thousands of native birds,only because they’re a nuisance ?
Show me the scientific evidence.
First off asshole, have you ever even been on the upper part of lake Marion? If you have, you would see the destruction that those (**() rats with wings cause. I don’t know what tree hugging rock you crawled out from under, but you best pick it up real high and drop it on your head.
There is nothing left of the fishery that used to be there. Not all of it is to blame on cormorants, for sure, but when you see literally thousands of them every time you’re out there, and nothing else, there’s a problem. There used to be a healthy thriving population of all sorts of bait fish, now it’s very hard to find any at all. They kill the trees they roost in, will make a huge mess on you if you get too close.
If the plan was approved by DNR, and it’s legal, then STFU!!
'06 Mckee Craft
184 Marathon
DF140 Suzuki
quote:
Originally posted by tigerfin[quote]Originally posted by poke salad
If there were scientific evidence that comorants were depleting the fish stock in the lakes,then I would have a diferent opinion.As it stands now,anglers and guides have blown smoke up the appropriate vents,which influence the directors at DNR to create a "season ". It’s complete bull****.
There are many nuisance animals around,hawks,owls,eagles bother my duck hunting.Flipper is a nuisance to my creek fishing,cudas are a nuisance to my reef fishing,mockingbirds are a nuisance to my garden.I don’t see how you justify destroying thousands of native birds,only because they’re a nuisance ?
Show me the scientific evidence.
First off asshole, have you ever even been on the upper part of lake Marion? If you have, you would see the destruction that those (**() rats with wings cause. I don’t know what tree hugging rock you crawled out from under, but you best pick it up real high and drop it on your head.
There is nothing left of the fishery that used to be there. Not all of it is to blame on cormorants, for sure, but when you see literally thousands of them every time you’re out there, and nothing else, there’s a problem. There used to be a healthy thriving population of all sorts of bait fish, now it’s very hard to find any at all. They kill the trees they roost in, will make a huge mess on you if you get too close.
If the plan was approved by DNR, and it’s legal, then STFU!!
'06 Mckee Craft
184 Marathon
DF140 Suzuki
[/quote you should be ashamed of that juvenile behavior,Clemson folk I associate with have a hell of a lot more class than you.
Pop off all you wish,there is no scientific evidence that comorants are depleting fish stocks in Santee Cooper lakes.
What I have heard for years is
I understand that you hear things without ever seeing it first hand, and then complain about what people who have seen first hand are doing about a very real problem. There are lots of other issues that I would love to be able to fix, but there not much I can do about those, but this one I can, and I plan to do so.
You are correct about my very poor choice of words, and for that I do apologize.
Also there’s nothing you can do about the depth of the lake, but I also feel like the never ending barrage of invasive lake weeds that then get sprayed and killed by the powers that be over and over again are a major part of the problem. Years ago the lake was nearly not navagable due to the weeds, but the fishing was great. Every time they spray the lake, it destroys what ever water quality was there.
Most of the invasive weeds come from out of state either from boaters bringing them in, or people up river with a small garden pond that those weeds were planted ornamentally and they got out either by some animal or a flood. All that stuff washes down river and ends up in stumphole swamp.
'06 Mckee Craft
184 Marathon
DF140 Suzuki
Your apology accepted.
I don’t have an attraction to comorants at all,i know there are masses of them up there,I saw them when I hunted ducks there Years ago.Duck hunting there is no longer worth the trouble,birds were there in the past for the grass and hydrilla,SanteeCooper wants million dollar homes all around the lake with crystal waters,they don’t want the habitat for ducks and fish.
The comorant season was purely a political issue with DNR.As Phin would say,follow the trail,it is not difficult to see the trail from anglers-guides,politicians,and one director in particular who has her sights set on bigger positions.
DNR is an agency that does their homework,they have not on this issue,period.If you think killing thousands of birds without the scientific evidence is the right thing to do,have at it.The slow killing off of the habitat is the most likely loss of fish stock,the duck hunting surely suffered,no reason why fish aren’t next.
How many other lakes in SC has such a season?
Or, it could have been the result of what can happen when you get politics to work in your favor. You know, of the people, by the people and for the people. Santee Cooper could care less about the cormorant problem, too. This was a direct result of people who were fed up and did something about it.
'06 Mckee Craft
184 Marathon
DF140 Suzuki
quote:politics working in the favor for whom? A bunch of fish story telling guides and anglers,blowing smoke up DNRs vents?
Originally posted by tigerfinOr, it could have been the result of what can happen when you get politics to work in your favor. You know, of the people, by the people and for the people. Santee Cooper could care less about the cormorant problem, too. This was a direct result of people who were fed up and did something about it.
'06 Mckee Craft
184 Marathon
DF140 Suzuki
What bunch of guides are there? Anglers and citizens who are around the lake on a daily basis, yes. I suggest you do a little homework on the issue, not just read the Audubon society newsletter.
'06 Mckee Craft
184 Marathon
DF140 Suzuki
Santee-cooper guides assoc.
I don’t follow the Audubon society,what I have followed is the trail from fishermen and guides to politicians to DNR.
Again tigerfin,SHOW ME the scientific data that proves comorants deplete fish stocks.
So 33 licensed guides had enough pull to get this done? I doubt that. Take a trip down and see for yourself just how many cormorants there are. There are way more than there used to be. Period. It took enough voices shouting from the rooftops that someone finally took notice.
Sometimes common sense prevails, no study is needed. They eat the little fish that are food for everything else. Do you need a study done on BSB to know that the limit needs to be changed? No, five minutes of fishing any piece of structure on the coast will tell you that.
'06 Mckee Craft
184 Marathon
DF140 Suzuki
quote:
Originally posted by poke saladIf there were scientific evidence that comorants were depleting the fish stock in the lakes,then I would have a diferent opinion.As it stands now,anglers and guides have blown smoke up the appropriate vents,which influence the directors at DNR to create a "season ". It’s complete bull****.
There are many nuisance animals around,hawks,owls,eagles bother my duck hunting.Flipper is a nuisance to my creek fishing,cudas are a nuisance to my reef fishing,mockingbirds are a nuisance to my garden.I don’t see how you justify destroying thousands of native birds,only because they’re a nuisance ?
Show me the scientific evidence.
I do believe observation is part of scientific evidence. You sound a lot like Bolbie.
How could you ever think a Mocking bird is a nuisance? That’s most favorite bird. They get a super cool personality and can share out of my garden and blue berries any day. They also hate cats.
Marine Biologist here
true, full blown scientific assessments and multi-year analyses haven’t been done but that doesn’t mean that population control measures aren’t appropriate
these type studies weren’t done at the Galapagos Islands when I worked on the goat elimination program on Fernandina, or the wild dog elimination program on Isabela, or the rat elimination program on Floreana or any of the other species control programs that have been done, the evidence was clear without the studies that the programs were appropriate
it’s about balance, when one or more species are allowed to populate (as with Galapagos) or overpopulate as with the cormorants then there is a problem, in some cases if there are no natural predators then man becomes the control factor, to not control the resource would be irresponsible
when the problem is large enough it’s an acceptable practice to begin the control efforts and to use scientific methods to monitor the results
if anyone thinks that population surveys weren’t done before it was decided that the population should be reduced, or that population surveys weren’t done afterward, or that significant discussion and review of this subject wasn’t done, or that some guides, screaming lake users, eager hunters and a couple politicians caused the decision to be made hastily, they are incorrect
science is being applied, in this case there was no need to spend years and tons of money doing analyses, the issue was clear, and frankly it was clear for years before action was taken
be glad the decision was made to allow the hunting public to be part of the solution, rather than spending tons of money to hire contractors to have it done, that part of the hunting public that didn’t follow the rules lost the chance to enjoy the outdoor resources that we have
if anyone disagrees then they should insist that years of science should be done to absolutely quantify the impact of the coyote on the wildlife population and the habitat, during that time no coyote management would
this is a good article on the issue, it was published in 2006 and did not include any studies done in SC, there is plenty of info out there is one is interested in understanding the issue
http://wildlifecontrol.info/pubs/Documents/Cormorant/Cormorant.pdf
for answers to the question of “show me the proof” skip to page 13
so why are cormorants so destructive in this particular habitat, because a large percentage of the lake is shallow enough to be huntable by the bird, and there are enough birds to negatively effect the fish population, their impact on the resource also effects other species that depend on the lake for food
Pioneer 197SF
quote:If you think widespread public outcry got the season approved,then you are dreaming.It was good ol boy politics at its finest,someone in DNR wants something later.
Originally posted by tigerfinSo 33 licensed guides had enough pull to get this done? I doubt that. Take a trip down and see for yourself just how many cormorants there are. There are way more than there used to be. Period. It took enough voices shouting from the rooftops that someone finally took notice.
Sometimes common sense prevails, no study is needed. They eat the little fish that are food for everything else. Do you need a study done on BSB to know that the limit needs to be changed? No, five minutes of fishing any piece of structure on the coast will tell you that.
'06 Mckee Craft
184 Marathon
DF140 Suzuki
Think about something tiger,we both agree the grass and hydrilla are very beneficial for the lakes.Before the eradication of hydrilla the fishing was excellent as well as duck hunting.Who ordered and performed the spraying? Santee Cooper.
Now,if the smallest of studies were done,they would show the lack of natural cover as one of the major reasons why the fishing is hurting .Bait fish seek cover in the grass and hydrilla,no place to hide,you get eaten quickly.
Do you tigerfin ,think Santee Cooper wants everyone to know that they slowly but surely ruined the fishing in the Santee Cooper lakes?
quote:
Originally posted by poke saladquote:If you think widespread public outcry got the season approved,then you are dreaming.It was good ol boy politics at its finest,someone in DNR wants something later.
Originally posted by tigerfinSo 33 licensed guides had enough pull to get this done? I doubt that. Take a trip down and see for yourself just how many cormorants there are. There are way more than there used to be. Period. It took enough voices shouting from the rooftops that someone finally took notice.
Sometimes common sense prevails, no study is needed. They eat the little fish that are food for everything else. Do you need a study done on BSB to know that the limit needs to be changed? No, five minutes of fishing any piece of structure on the coast will tell you that.
'06 Mckee Craft
184 Marathon
DF140 Suzuki
Think about something tiger,we both agree the grass and hydrilla are very beneficial for the lakes.Before the eradication of hydrilla the fishing was excellent as well as duck hunting.Who ordered and performed the spraying? Santee Cooper.
Now,if the smallest of studies were done,they would show the lack of natural cover as one of the major reasons why the fishing is hurting .Bait fish seek cover in the grass and hydrilla,no place to hide,you get eaten quickly.
Do you tigerfin ,think Santee Cooper wants everyone to know that they slowly but surely ruined the fishing in the Santee Cooper lakes?
Bolbie Poke, your changing subjects. Did you read Bluesky’s reply. Pretty good for an answer to where is the scientific evidence.
You really defending Cormo