You are trying to change the argument…why? I never said the SEC was not the best conference…and that was never my argument so not sure why you went on a SEC is the best tangent.
I’ve been on that “tangent” the whole time… Please show me where I wasn’t.
quote:
You stated "OSU has an SEC coach who has success modeling his team after SEC football".
My response was the SEC did not come up with a new “model” for success . The “model” has been there forever the SEC has just found ways to execute it the best over the past 8 years (4 SEC teams that is). You could just as well say Urban “models” his team after almost every elite program over the last 100 years. Why is it all of a sudden an “SEC” thing?
SEC is known for tough defense and huge line men. You can say that’s it’s the same model for the last 100 years, but it’s not. I think it’s pretty evident that when you DON’T go to the NC 8 years in a row and then suddenly you DO go, it’s safe to say that something has changed. Call it what you want, but when you go to the NC 8 years in a row you have developed a secret sauce. The model has not been around for 100 years. There are complete trends in college football. Do you remember watching the “wildcat offense” 100 years ago? I don’t think you do. Steve Spurrier of 2014 is nothing like Steve Spurrier of 1996. He definitely focuses a lot more on defense than he used to. If you can say his model for success is “the same”, then you are just ignoring the facts, and you don’t want to believe anything.
You are trying to change the argument…why? I never said the SEC was not the best conference…and that was never my argument so not sure why you went on a SEC is the best tangent.
I’ve been on that “tangent” the whole time… Please show me where I wasn’t.
[quote]
You stated “OSU has an SEC coach who has success modeling his team after SEC football”.
My response was the SEC did not come up with a new “model” for success . The “model” has been there forever the SEC has just found ways to execute it the best over the past 8 years (4 SEC teams that is). You could just as well say Urban “models” his team after almost every elite program over the last 100 years. Why is it all of a sudden an “SEC” thing?
SEC is known for tough defense and huge line men. You can say that’s it’s the same model for the last 100 years, but it’s not. I think it’s pretty evident that when you DON’T go to the NC 8 years in a row and then suddenly you DO go, it’s safe to say that something has changed. Call it what you want, but when you go to the NC 8 years in a row you have developed a secret sauce. The model has not been around for 100 years. There are complete trends in college football. Do you remember watching the “wildcat offense” 100 years ago? I don’t think you do. Steve Spurrier of 2014 is nothing like Steve Spurrier of 1996. He definitely focuses a lot more on defense than he used to. If you can say his model for success is “the same”, then you are just ignoring the facts, and you don’t want to believe anything
1.) Then you are arguing with yourself because I never disagreed with the SEC being the best at any point in this thread.
2.) Danny Ford built his run in the 80’s off nasty defense and big linemen. He won a NC. Up until a few years ago defense always won championships. Its a formula that’s been around forever. Those are facts that you don’t want to believe.
Again, the SEC took an existing formula and executed it on a level never seen before. Be proud of that. But don’t pretend they made up said formula.
PS the wildcat is not a “style” of football.
I guess you don't believe "how to execute" is a part of the formula!
Yes, I get it. You get the best players, hike a brown ball, throw it into the end-zone more than the other teams and you win. That strategy has definitely been around forever. No argument there.
Wildcat offense is not a style of football? Can you show me the list of official football styles so I can verify?
Football “evolves” every year. If you don’t believe that, then you don’t watch football. Believe it or not, it’s not a bunch of skinny white dudes running around in leather helmets and striped pants anymore! Just look at how much the position of QB has changed. If you can’t run a 4.4 and scramble out of the pocket, nobody wants you anymore.
1.) Then you are arguing with yourself because I never disagreed with the SEC being the best at any point in this thread.
2.) Danny Ford built his run in the 80’s off nasty defense and big linemen. He won a NC. Up until a few years ago defense always won championships. Its a formula that’s been around forever. Those are facts that you don’t want to believe.
Again, the SEC took an existing formula and executed it on a level never seen before. Be proud of that. But don’t pretend they made up said formula.
PS the wildcat is not a “style” of football.
I guess you don't believe "how to execute" is a part of the formula! Ok, so the secret sauce was how to execute on a time old formula? Go it. Talk about a big secret
Yes, I get it. You get the best players, hike a brown ball, throw it into the end-zone more than the other teams and you win. That strategy has definitely been around forever. No argument there.
Wildcat offense is not a style of football. Can you show me the list of official football styles so I can verify?
Football “evolves” every year. If you don’t believe that, then you don’t watch football. Believe it or not, it’s not a bunch of skinny white dudes running around in leather helmets and striped pants anymore! Just look at how much the position of QB has changed. If you can’t run a 4.4 and scramble out of the pocket, nobody wants you anymore.
Football evolves, of course, but the base premise has always been the same… teams
“The wildcat was popularized on the college level by Bill Snyder, head coach of the Kansas State University Wildcats with Michael Bishop as quarterback in 1997 and 1998 when they made a run at the top of the national rankings.[7] Bishop rushed for 1304 career yards in two seasons, including 748 yards on 177 carries during the '98 season. As stated in the previous article, this type of offense was the catalyst for Urban Meyer’s offense during the start of his career. It was Meyer’s success with quarterback Tim Tebow that helped the formation come to the forefront.”
“The wildcat was popularized on the college level by Bill Snyder, head coach of the Kansas State University Wildcats with Michael Bishop as quarterback in 1997 and 1998 when they made a run at the top of the national rankings.[7] Bishop rushed for 1304 career yards in two seasons, including 748 yards on 177 carries during the '98 season. As stated in the previous article, this type of offense was the catalyst for Urban Meyer’s offense during the start of his career. It was Meyer’s success with quarterback Tim Tebow that helped the formation come to the forefront.”
Sure as heck sounds like a “new formula” to me…
The premise of needing a great defense has not changed. Yes, the offenses has changed, many times, and will again. I never said they didn’t.
I’ve been focused on the defense the whole time because YOU said that’s what the SEC is known for and seemed to have created.
Are you now trying to say the SEC’s magic formula was Meyer bringing a
Did you just quote something from Wikipedia as if it were fact?? Come on!! That’s just as bad as using someone else’s statistics that are skewed to the point they are trying to make. You’re arguments are full of holes. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and nobody wants to hear yours.
Are you now trying to say the SEC’s magic formula was Meyer bringing a new offense to Florida? And by the way…it was not new if it was used at Kansas State.
No, you said that football has not changed in 100 years. You have claimed that there is no “formula for success”. You claim that the only reason why SEC is dominant is because they “execute better”. I showed you AN EXAMPLE of how football has changed. I showed you AN EXAMPLE of how football evolves (which shows you are incorrect), and how strong coaches adapt to this changing landscape. You don’t seem to think that football evolves. You think the skinny white dudes with leather helmets could compete against Alabama as long as they “execute better”.
quote:
Don't forget the premise of your argument...that the SEC is not in the NC because Meyer brought an SEC style of football to OSU (great defense and big linemen)
That's not what I said. That's not what I implied. Alabama is not in the NC because they had a bad game against OS. That's it. If they play OS 10 more times, they would beat them 7 of those 10.
The “premise” of my bringing Urban Meyer into the discussion is because people (not you), were saying that there wasn’t anything special about the SEC and that it’s all “hype”. I proposed that OS hired an SEC coach with a NC under his belt, who has now modeled his OS team around SEC mentality. It was a formula for success for him. Obviously, if they were the same OS that they were 5 years ago, they wouldn’t be playing in the NC. OS realized that they needed a better coach, someone who has put up big results
Did you just quote something from Wikipedia as if it were fact?? Come on!! That’s just as bad as using someone else’s statistics that are skewed to the point they are trying to make. You’re arguments are full of holes. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and nobody wants to hear yours.
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Is this your counter-argument? Not very solid... Maybe post something useful and we will take a look.
Crap, I just realized that I am arguing with a Clemson fan (tigerfin) about conference strength. It’s like trying to convince a fat lady that a cake only diet is bad for her diabetes.
There is one major difference in all championship level teams and that is the defensive and offensive lines. In order to be a champion in today’s college football, you have to be dominant on the line on both sides of the ball NO MATTER WHAT CONFERNECE YOU ARE IN. Is this the SEC’s secret? No, but the SEC elite always have dominant lines. Are there teams outside of the SEC that have incredible lines? Yes, this is evidenced by Ohio State’s season. As much as I hate Ohio State, they have a great team with VERY GOOD linesmen.
Will the team with the best line play win the national championship this year? Almost always.
Are you now trying to say the SEC’s magic formula was Meyer bringing a new offense to Florida? And by the way…it was not new if it was used at Kansas State.
No, you said that football has not changed in 100 years. You have claimed that there is no “formula for success”. You claim that the only reason why SEC is dominant is because they “execute better”. I showed you AN EXAMPLE of how football has changed. I showed you AN EXAMPLE of how football evolves (which shows you are incorrect), and how strong coaches adapt to this changing landscape. You don’t seem to think that football evolves. You think the skinny white dudes with leather helmets could compete against Alabama as long as they “execute better”.
quote:
Don't forget the premise of your argument...that the SEC is not in the NC because Meyer brought an SEC style of football to OSU (great defense and big linemen)
That's not what I said. That's not what I implied. Alabama is not in the NC because they had a bad game against OS. That's it. If they play OS 10 more times, they would beat them 7 of those 10.
The “premise” of my bringing Urban Meyer into the discussion is because people (not you), were saying that there wasn’t anything special about the SEC and that it’s all “hype”. I proposed that OS hired an SEC coach with a NC under his belt, who has now modeled his OS team around SEC mentality. It was a formula for success for him. Obviously, if
When I speak of executing an age old formula I’m talking about recruiting well, playing physical, getting great coaches and having good financial support.
Isn't that in chapter 1 of "How to coach football for dummies"? That's no more of a "formula" than, "Every player has to have a number on their jersey". That's not a "formula". That is referred to as "fundamentals"...
I think you and I have difference of meaning of “formula for success”. Unfortunately, you’ve watered yours down to the point of it being meaningless.
When I speak of executing an age old formula I’m talking about recruiting well, playing physical, getting great coaches and having good financial support.
Isn't that in chapter 1 of "How to coach football for dummies"? That's no more of a "formula" than, "Every player has to have a number on their jersey". That's not a "formula". That is referred to as "fundamentals"...
I think you and I have difference of meaning of “formula for success”. Unfortunately, you’ve watered yours down to the point of it being meaningless.
So, recruiting at high level, playing great defense and hiring the best coaches is meaningless?
There is one major difference in all championship level teams and that is the defensive and offensive lines. In order to be a champion in today’s college football, you have to be dominant on the line on both sides of the ball NO MATTER WHAT CONFERNECE YOU ARE IN. Is this the SEC’s secret? No, but the SEC elite always have dominant lines. Are there teams outside of the SEC that have incredible lines? Yes, this is evidenced by Ohio State’s season. As much as I hate Ohio State, they have a great team with VERY GOOD linesmen.
Will the team with the best line play win the national championship this year? Almost always.
When I speak of executing an age old formula I’m talking about recruiting well, playing physical, getting great coaches and having good financial support.
Isn't that in chapter 1 of "How to coach football for dummies"? That's no more of a "formula" than, "Every player has to have a number on their jersey". That's not a "formula". That is referred to as "fundamentals"...
I think you and I have difference of meaning of “formula for success”. Unfortunately, you’ve watered yours down to the point of it being meaningless.
So, recruiting at high level, playing great defense and hiring the best coaches is meaningless?
