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Originally posted by Cracker LarryI agree with Misslily, my personal experiences have been the same. You could tell by the time they were 3. Even if they didn’t know it, everybody else did.
Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats“Ships are the nearest things to dreams that hands have ever made.” -Robert N. Rose
Ditto- My personal experience it was obvious from the get-go.
quote:So I guess in your view veganism is not considered "normal" then!
Originally posted by Fred67“Normal” is the pairing of the opposite sex to procreate life or just enjoy each others companionship through life.
quote:Goes back to that micromanaging analogy I gave earlier... I perhaps didn't notice I was a micromanager till my 20s but everyone around me had already!
Originally posted by Cracker Larry Even if they didn't know it, everybody else did.
My bad skinneej. I didn’t know the definition of discuss from your first post. No idea it included debate. I thought you really wanted to hear some opinions of people who might have first hand knowledge. I said I thought twice about weighing in on this discussion as I am not ever up for a debate where there is no proof of anything and no one wins. That’s why I gave up so quickly. I have no proof of my opinion except personal experience. You have no proof of your opinion either. All I can say is I hope you don’t have to experience the low that parents of born gay children have to deal with. And thank God you didn’t have to grow up with the shame and disgust put upon those children. Like I said , I’m not adding anything and I’m done after this apology for my ignorance.
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Originally posted by jamesbluntquote:So I guess in your view veganism is not considered "normal" then!
Originally posted by Fred67“Normal” is the pairing of the opposite sex to procreate life or just enjoy each others companionship through life.
So who are you an alias for?
Yes, you guessed right. Vegetarian’s are not normal to me. I don’t understand why a Vegan shuns all meat??? I’d love to know why a Vegan can’t enjoy a delicious pork chop, steak, hot dog, BLT, venison back strap lightly seared in olive oil, some marinaded chicken breasts grilled to perfection, a lovely prime rib, some leg of lamb, a medium rare tuna steak, some fresh fried red breast, and the list goes on. I do understand why vegans love vegetables, I love them as much as I do MEAT.
Yes I’d put Vegans in the non-normal category. To each there own, I’ll tolerate and even be a friend. But I don’t accept it.
wow my brain hurts even trying to read some of these posts… geezums
my personal opinion is that your tastes change (obviously right? I mean really…). was I born to marry a beautiful black woman who has dual citizenship in Jamaica and Trinidad? PROBABLY not, I grew up in the mountains of NC, but guess what… I GREW up, had some REAL life experiences and well things worked out awesome. Oh yeah, I also have a ton of gay friends. They are awesome people and I count them as some of my closest friends that I trust with my life.
To answer Skinees thread… you aint born with sh*t… you make your own destiny. What you choose is your own business!
“mr keys”
Whether a person is born with a tendency or desire for something is entirely irrelevant when it comes to the issue of morality. Morals are not determined by a person’s preference, and morals are not determined by genetics or environment. Discovering the origin of a person’s preference doesn’t validate their choice as “moral”.
Case in point. If my preference were, say, for brunettes in their early 20’s, and my wife is in her 50’s and a redhead, that does not make it ethical to cheat on my wife with that young brunette. If my preference were to eat only ice cream, that doesn’t make it ethical to eat it only. If my preference were for the taste of human flesh, that doesn’t make it right to be a cannibal. If my preference was to use violence to solve traffic problems, that doesn’t make it ethical.
So exactly how/why does a person’s sexual preference make that sexual activity ethical and socially acceptable?
Humans are born with a bent toward having distorted desires/pleasures. Every era of recorded human history has documented this rather thoroughly. Why on earth should we consider something ethical/moral simply because we think we can demonstrate that they were “born that way”?
The real debate does not lie in discovering the origin of one’s preferences. The real debate is over the origin of the morals that have governed the world ever since the dawn of human history, not the origin of the behaviors and preferences. The difficulty is that the world typically doesn’t want to engage the debate at this level, because it inevitably leads toward a discussion of the existence of God, and thus the requirement of the humans to be subject to God’s ethics.
In the cases of homosexual activity (or, heterosexual adultery, fornication, pornography, “friends with benefits”, open marriages, etc), the case is closed and there’s not much to debate in terms of morality. These behaviors have been categorically shunned by the vast majority of human cultures (though not all), by the vast majority of religions (agai
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Originally posted by Redfish_mattSo exactly how/why does a person’s sexual preference make that sexual activity ethical and socially acceptable?
Humans are born with a bent toward having distorted desires/pleasures. Every era of recorded human history has documented this rather thoroughly. Why on earth should we consider something ethical/moral simply because we think we can demonstrate that they were “born that way”?
The real debate does not lie in discovering the origin of one’s preferences. The real debate is over the origin of the morals that have governed the world ever since the dawn of human history, not the origin of the behaviors and preferences. The difficulty is that the world typically doesn’t want to engage the debate at this level, because it inevitably leads toward a discussion of the existence of God, and thus the requirement of the humans to be subject to God’s ethics.
In the cases of homosexual activity (or, heterosexual adultery, fornication, pornography, “friends with benefits”, open marriages, etc), the case is closed and there’s not much to debate in terms of morality. These behaviors have been categorically shunned by the vast majority of human cultures (though not all), by the vast majority of religions (again, not by all), and are obvious violations of the natural order of creation.
Taking things one step further, all one truly needs to do in this case is to point out that the God of the Bible is defensibly the only true God and Creator, and these behaviors are entirely inconsistent with His nature and prohibited.
… The Cross of Christ is the anvil upon which the hammer of evil wore itself out.
Behaviors that have been “shunned by society” - possibly in words, but not actions.
Take our country vs the examples you listed above.
Sex before marr
quote:Wow, thank God your live in a little village and I hope to God you never venture outside of it. You've pretty much summarised that Brahmins (who make up about 20% of India's 1 billion population are "not normal". Hey ho, might as well as throw in the entire 800mil Hindu population who don't eat beef. Oh, and I take it alcohol is "normal" to you which pretty makes the majority of the Muslim population "not normal" as well in your eyes.
Originally posted by Fred67Yes, you guessed right. Vegetarian’s are not normal to me.
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Originally posted by misslily All I can say is I hope you don't have to experience the low that parents of born gay children have to deal with. And thank God you didn't have to grow up with the shame and disgust put upon those children. Like I said ,
In Jason’s defence, he said he could never imagine or envision how homosexuality works but he didn’t exactly shun it. for example he was blessed with a beautiful healthy daughter recently. I don’t see him having problems if his daughter grew up to be a lesbian and had a female lover. He wouldn’t relate to it, but I don’t see him loving her any less or disapproving of her choice.
quote:So you're comparing sexual preference to violence (cannibalism, etc.). Totally illogical comparison. Sexual orientation is nothing more than a preference - some folks like milk chocolate, some like dark. some like Thai cuisine, some like Italian. Some men like to romance women, some to men. That has nothing to do with violence or killing of another person(cannibalism, rape, terrorism, etc.) so you can't group them together at all.
Originally posted by Redfish_matt If my preference were for the taste of human flesh, that doesn't make it right to be a cannibal. If my preference was to use violence to solve traffic problems, that doesn't make it ethical.
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Originally posted by misslily…so I weighed in with some personal insight. You are also weighting in with your interpretation and seem to want to ram it down everyone’s throat. Everyone else who does not accept your opinion is wrong? What discussion? I will not be giving you any more material to disagree with. You win.
But in your original reply, you did throw this in: “I challenge you to do some research on your own and you may be able to understand the “born with” theory and develop a little compassion.”
The rest of your reply was pretty good except for this and the “ram it down everyone’s throat” comment. It is a discussion of a controversial subject. There are going to be disagreements. They can be civil, or not.
13ft Whaler with 25hp Johnson
If you’re lucky enough to be fishing, you’re lucky enough.
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Originally posted by jughedquote:
Originally posted by Redfish_mattBehaviors that have been “shunned by society” - possibly in words, but not actions.
Take our country vs the examples you listed above.
Sex before marriage - multi decade survey = 95%.
Adultry - 20-30%
Divorce - +50%
Porn - 13B in US revenue, pleny o people access porn - and plenty of technology is developed to handle the requirements.And - when it comes to “morality” as written in the bible, we pick and choose what parts we accept or allow. We allow women to re-marry, we allow non virgins to marry… we could go on and on and on.
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</font id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”>People being wishy-washy on biblical morals don’t disprove biblical morals. People picking and choosing them don’t disprove them. It only shows the inconsistency by which we choose to hold this, which is exactly in line with what the Scripture says about human nature.
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What your post leads up to - and is saying without saying - gays can have gay feelings, but they shouldn't act on it. To meet your moral code, gay men should quell their sex drive for their enitre lives...
I am assuming that you expect pedophiles to do the same thing, and I’m assuming you expect your wife to do the exact same thing if her preference is some nationality/race or body type that isn’t you.
The assumption that you are making is that a person’s feelings justify their actions. I’m trying to point out that this
I don’t know what sort of friends you hang out with Redfish_matt but I know several gay couples who have adopted kids and those kids are model citizens. If anything, some of the so-called “straight family” kids have been victims of drunken parents, parents having extra marital affairs ,etc. To me family isn’t a “mother” and “father”. It’s two people in a relationship of love and trust, bringing positivity to the world and teaching that to their offspring (again, adopted or otherwise).
SkinneeJ
Thank you…
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Originally posted by jamesbluntquote:Wow, thank God your live in a little village and I hope to God you never venture outside of it. You've pretty much summarised that Brahmins (who make up about 20% of India's 1 billion population are "not normal". Hey ho, might as well as throw in the entire 800mil Hindu population who don't eat beef. Oh, and I take it alcohol is "normal" to you which pretty makes the majority of the Muslim population "not normal" as well in your eyes.
Originally posted by Fred67Yes, you guessed right. Vegetarian’s are not normal to me.
I don’t think I gave you my take on Alcohol… so who are you an alias for?
Get your facts straight Brahmin only make up 9% and they do consume fish and milk which does not make them pure vegetarian.
As to the Hindu’s that don’t eat beef, I used to not eat raw tomatoes. Your comparison on that is mute.
As to venturing outside “my little village” I’d dare say I’ve been to many more places than you have. Both stateside and abroad.
It’s not that I have as closed a mind as you my perceive, I just have a hard time giving in to things I was raised to see as not normal or unnatural. I see American’s giving in daily, not me.
quote:Only coastal Brahmins do. And since when did drinking milk NOT be considered vegetarian?!
Originally posted by Fred67Get your facts straight Brahmin only make up 9% and they do consume fish and milk which does not make them pure vegetarian.
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Originally posted by Fred67As to venturing outside “my little village” I’d dare say I’ve been to many more places than you have.
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Really?!I don’t think you want to challenge me on that!
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Originally posted by jamesbluntI don’t know what sort of friends you hang out with Redfish_matt but I know several gay couples who have adopted kids and those kids are model citizens. If anything, some of the so-called “straight family” kids have been victims of drunken parents, parents having extra marital affairs ,etc. To me family isn’t a “mother” and “father”. It’s two people in a relationship of love and trust, bringing positivity to the world and teaching that to their offspring (again, adopted or otherwise).
I’d like to point out several things here in your perspective that are very difficult positions to live consistently with.
First, anyone can point out model citizens who grew up in all sorts of situations, good and bad. I grew up in the house of a severe alcoholic, but I do my best and my family seems to be quite nice. That doesn’t make my father’s alcoholism acceptable. Please understand that this is just the sort of litmus test you are applying here. Just because the child turns out OK, that doesn’t make the behavior of the adoptive parents acceptable.
Second, there are very clear roles played by a male (father) and female (mother) that children depend on. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with the statistics of criminal behavior and the corresponding number of them that come from fatherless homes, but it’s enormous. The mother/father couple is one of the most critical foundations to a strong family and strong society. Allowing homosexual couples to adopt children at large is a social experiment that we are doing. I’m sure some will turn out quite fine. That doesn’t make it ethical.
Third, you point out that there are a lot of kids that come from screwed up “straight marriages”. Sure, agreed. I’m one of them. That doesn’t make homosexual marriages a good alternative. It’s as if
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Originally posted by jamesbluntquote:Only coastal Brahmins do. And since when did drinking milk NOT be considered vegetarian?!
Originally posted by Fred67Get your facts straight Brahmin only make up 9% and they do consume fish and milk which does not make them pure vegetarian.
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Originally posted by Fred67As to venturing outside “my little village” I’d dare say I’ve been to many more places than you have.
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Really?!
I do believe Milk is Animal protein.
No challenge, but I have been to all seven continents, but only 48 of our 50 states. or is it 57 as obuma stated? (you can snopes that). It’s all good in my little village! And your always welcome as long as you are respectful, always a cold beverage available.
Fred!
Sadly, if we were to remove milk, the only protein Brahmins have left is lentils! Actually milk is even used in worship and is used to prepare festival food and is indeed considered “vegetarian” by them. But I do get your point about it being animal protein.
