The trees are blocking your view of the forest…
Set the trap boys, we going to pass through them again!!
Wow, thanks for the explanation Capt. Obvious … the point of some previous post is that personally showing up to support any legislation like this that can have a positive impact and is worth the time and effort. A lot of times, something like this bill can by a catalyst for something more in the future.
Change starts somewhere, and this is more positive movement than we have seen in this area in a long time and brings to the attention of many, the issues that fisheries management are tasked with.
Perhaps you should have just written your last sentence and left it at that.
Congrats on being so short sighted.
quote:
Originally posted by knot @ workIf this bill is for state waters only, I am unaware of any nearshore reef inside the 3 mile limit. If there is one, I am unaware of it near Charleston. All charter boats must have the basic federal permits to operate in the ocean (I have 3 of them) at the reefs which are all in federal waters.
The only way this would affect the seabass fishery here is if the state waters could be extended another 6-10 miles out, otherwise prepare to keep catching seabass.
Of course you can catch a few inshore year around but not in the numbers and sizes you can get another 6-10 miles out.I support anything that passes and gives anglers more fishing than there is right now.
Tight lines.
Robert Olsen
I explained to the committee members that the problem goes back to the SAFMC and the make up of the board. Most of the committee members had no clue about what the council is doing and what the long term agenda is. They did not realize the economic impact that the closing of the seabass fishery has had. I let them know all about chairman Cupka and the need for new blood on the council. They had no idea how influential Cupka is and how he has tried for many years to close off bottom fishing…They know now!
.
NMFS = No More Fishing Season
“Back home we got a taxidermy man. He gonna have a heart attack when he see what I brung him”
quote:
Originally posted by sellsfishI explained to the committee members that the problem goes back to the SAFMC and the make up of the board. Most of the committee members had no clue about what the council is doing and what the long term agenda is. They did not realize the economic impact that the closing of the seabass fishery has had. I let them know all about chairman Cupka and the need for new blood on the council. They had no idea how influential Cupka is and how he has tried for many years to close off bottom fishing…They know now!
Thanks Sells and to everyone that attended!
Would also like to add that I spoke to Kim at RFA today and renewed my sons membership as well as my own (kicked in a little donation to boot).
As Phin mentioned, RFA is trying to help us but they need our support as well too.
So many recreational folks complaining about the closures that have the money for gas/bait ect. if they could fish but they can’t spend any time or money to help while not fishing!!! Just don’t get it.
End of Rant!
NN
07 23 Key West Twin 115 Yammys
quote:
Originally posted by FishnBarrelsThere are many guides in charleston making money off nearshore and inshore fishing and NOT 1 guide has the time in their “busy” self made schedule to come support their own well being at the statehouse today??? What the heck is wrong with people these days!! There were 6 of us up there to represent how many hundred or more guides and thousands of recreational fisherman- you people need to put more effort into this- stop talking and do something b/c actions speak louder than words…but on a good note things went well today and we hope to see Mr. Goldfinch’s bill pass soon
BECAUSE THIS BILL WILL NOT HELP THE GUIDES or CHARTER/HEADBOATS GUYS…
IT ONLY HELPS THE RECREATIONAL FISHERMEN THAT DO NOT HAVE A FEDERAL CHARTER/HEADBOAT FOR HIRE SNAPPER GROUPER PERMIT OR A ATLANTIC HMS ANGLING PERMIT…
The federal regulation citation is 50 C.F.R. section 622.49(b)(ii):
(ii) Recreational sector. (A) If recreational landings for black sea bass, as estimated by the SRD, are projected to reach the recreational ACL of 409,000 lb (185,519 kg), gutted weight; 482,620 lb (218,913 kg), round weight; the AA will file a notification with the Office of the Federal Register to close the recreational sector for the remainder of the fishing year. On and after the effective date of such a notification, the bag and possession limit is zero. This bag and possession limit applies in the South Atlantic on board a vessel for which a valid Federal charter vessel/headboat permit for South Atlantic snapper-grouper has been issued, without regard to where such species were harvested, i.e. in state or Federal waters.
Captain Keith
Myrtle Beach SC
North Myrtle Beach Fishing Charters
http://www.NorthMyrtleBeachFishingCharters.com
Yes, thank you sells…
The other action that somehow needs to start taking shape is legal action against SAFMC. I have to believe that this is in violation of our civil rights and liberties and lawsuits need to be filed against SAFMC in all affected states.
This can accomplish many things
- It will slow them down through the judicial process
- It will impact their economic well being. They will have to divert more of their money into legal support and away from other subversive actions and motions.
- It will bring PUBLICITY against them.
- It will expose what is really happening.
- We can stop them legally.
Now the other shoe; I have no idea how to make this happen. Hopefully we have some members on this sight that are in the legal profession and can give advise and starting points.
We need to push for state control of water extending at least 50 miles offshore if not the entire 200 miles of our EEZ. This would solve many problems including allowing most charter boats to only have a state permit instead of a federal permit that ties their hands as Capt. Keith mentioned.
Knot,
Of course getting it right would be great. But our federal government is so corrupt who here believes that’s an option. .?? This may not be perfect but it’s a start. A bad law is in place and it was put there by a bi partisan congress. Hopefully the same type of coalition will come together to change it. I went to DC a couple of years ago, and would have gone Wednesday, but I am a resident of NC. I own a home on tbe SC coast , but my business keeps me in NC. I have drafted a letter that a bunch of my buds that live right over the border will send to their reps. Its sad that someone who pays an azzload of SC property taxes doesn’t have any say
Keith,
Actually, it does help guides who fish inshore. It helps them by not forcing them to throw back mature sea bass they will catch over habitat they are fishing for other species. Doesn’t matter if the guide wants the charter to have a nice fish sandwich for lunch or if he or she wants the competition for the other species’ food gone from the spot for the other fish’ sake.
We also cannot get traction to extend state waters until we get movement in the right direction from the state to at least say no to federal takeover of regs in existing state waters.
Which leads to another point, how are guides not helped by saying no to the Feds regulating state waters, which they have NO CLUE about, and having the state and Us take more responsibility? I am for less central, far away govt and more accountable and
Local government. Guides aren’t?
You think guides would appreciate cobia and redfish being shut down by the Feds inshore because of overfishing in Florida?
Did you know that Robert Boyles with DNR testified in support of the bill?
Did you know that a federal agent is not the person who gets to interpret the law?
Did you know that the fed employee atty who wrote the reg is not going to easily admit they are wrong?
Did you know i am still waiting after I asked you for the name of a judge would would take up a federal citation like you warn of, so that we could speak with him About the reg’s conflict with what Federal Law says about states’ jurisdictions not to be diminished?
You do not have a good reason to fight this bill at any rate unless the charter season is harmed significantly. DNR says that should not happen… On the record at the hearing… Otherwise, you are saying that state responsibility and more than 300 extra days to harvest sea bass in state waters are not worth guides’ support or effort?
I don’t think that is what you’re saying, but I am just trying to clear it up for everyone who may not understand.
You have legit concerns, and I don’t think this b
I don’t want to be seen as an antagonist, but I would like to back a subtle point that knot @ work might be making… Asking people to come to Columbia takes a lot of effort. If you expect masses of people to come, they obviously cannot do it every single time there is a bill. Though we would like to, it’s not practical. Therefore, if you are going to ask the masses to come, the bill must be some kind of “game changer”. It has to be BIG and it has to be BOLD… I feel that while many people feel this bill is a STEP in the right direction, it’s not BIG enough. If you are going to ask the masses to gather around and support something, you will likely only get ONE or TWO shots at it… Therefore the strategy of chipping away in this manner is not scalable. We have to put our BEST FOOT FORWARD with a bill that truly changes the game and then ask the masses to gather around that. If it’s only possible to get a mass of people maybe ONE or TWO times, wouldn’t we want to start out with something more disruptive?
Again, I truly APPRECIATE this bill and I am glad it is circulating through. But, I think that there needs to be a unified strategy on how to attack this issue, so let’s not beat around the bush.
quote:
Originally posted by Capt_KeithBECAUSE THIS BILL WILL NOT HELP THE GUIDES or CHARTER/HEADBOATS GUYS…
IT ONLY HELPS THE RECREATIONAL FISHERMEN THAT DO NOT HAVE A FEDERAL CHARTER/HEADBOAT FOR HIRE SNAPPER GROUPER PERMIT OR A ATLANTIC HMS …,
Captain Keith
Myrtle Beach SC
North Myrtle Beach Fishing Charters
http://www.NorthMyrtleBeachFishingCharters.com
Are we going to play that game?! We are much better standing as one and getting the ball moving our direction instead of the liberals! If not NONE of us are going to be fishing!!
Please post a list of guides that don’t support this cause it only helps the recreational fisherman and not themselves!
A house divided WILL fall! Post them! We can bring it to twigs now if you want to play that game.
Or are we going to stand as one and work through this together. Your call Captain…
Set the trap boys, we going to pass through them again!!
Wes, If the Inshore Guide has a ATLANTIC HMS ANGLING PERMIT for Sharks witch he has to have if he keeping sharks he fall under the The federal regulation citation is 50 C.F.R. section 622.49(b)(ii):
Not going to argue on the forum with you all about this. You or DNR does not write the tickets… We still have to deal the NOAA officers and USCG writing us ticket for keeping Black Sea Bass. I’m not a lawyer I’m a fishermen and Know the laws… I do no trust lawyer and I have to go with the the people who will write me a ticket will… All need to be aware there are two side to this. And i have checked in to this very deep and what I’m saying is the truth…
Wes as I said I’m going against the bill… Just think everyone need to know the truth about it and who it will help and not help is all. So that the Guides and Charter/Headboats guys do not get slammed like they are now on here for not showing up…
Captain Keith
Myrtle Beach SC
North Myrtle Beach Fishing Charters
http://www.NorthMyrtleBeachFishingCharters.com
Scoutin 4 Goodies… I DID NOT SAY I WAS FOR OR AGAIN THIS BILL… ALL I SAID WAS THE FISHERMEN NEED TO KNOW THE TRUTH OF HOW THIS BILL WILL HELP AND NOT HELP IS ALL I SAID.
I UNDER STAND MORE THAN ANYONE ON HERE HOW WE ALL NEED TO STAND AS ONE… BY THE WAY I’M THE ONE THAT BROUGHT OVER 300 COMMERCIAL, CHARTER/HEADBAOT AND RECREATIONAL FISHERMAN AS ONE HERE IN THE GRAND STRAND…
AND THIS IS THE BIGGEST REASON I DO NOT POST A LOT ON THIS SITE IS BECAUSE ALL THE BS!!!
I WORK HARD THEN ANY FORM THIS SITE AND OTHER TO HELP SAVE OUR FISHERIES SPEND THOUSAND OF MY OWEN DOLLARS DOING THIS. THE ONLY WAY TO FIX THE PROBLEM IS TO MSA AND TILL THIS DONE WE ARE GOING TO GET ANY WHERE AND THAT IS MY GOAL TO FIX IT. YOU CAN STAND BY ME OR NOT…
Captain Keith
Myrtle Beach SC
North Myrtle Beach Fishing Charters
http://www.NorthMyrtleBeachFishingCharters.com
Magnuson-Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management Act
SEC. 306. STATE JURISDICTION 16 U.S.C. 1856
97-453, 98-623
(a) IN GENERAL.–
(1) Except as provided in subsection (b), nothing in this Act shall be construed as extending or diminishing the jurisdiction or authority of any State within its boundaries.</font id=“size3”>
(2) For the purposes of this Act, except as provided in subsection
(b), the jurisdiction and authority of a State shall extend
(A) to any pocket of waters that is adjacent to the State and totally enclosed by lines delimiting the territorial sea of the United States pursuant to the Geneva Convention on the Territorial Sea and Contiguous Zone or any successor convention to which the United States is a party;
(B) with respect to the body of water commonly known as Nantucket Sound, to the pocket of water west of the seventieth meridian west of Greenwich; and
(C) to the waters of southeastern Alaska (for the purpose of regulating fishing for other than any species of crab) that are–
(i) north of the line representing the international boundary at Dixon Entrance and the westward extension of that line; east of 138 degrees west longitude; and not more than three nautical miles seaward from the coast, from the lines extending from headland to headland across all bays, inlets, straits, passes, sounds, and entrances, and from any island or group of islands, including the islands of the Alexander Archipelago (except Forrester Island); or
(ii) between the islands referred to in clause (i) (except Forrester Island) and the mainland.
104-297
(3) A State may regulate a fishing vessel outside the boundaries of the State in the following circumstances:
(A) The fishing vessel is registered under the law of that State, and (i) there is no fishery management plan or other applicable Federal fishing regulations for the fishery in which the vessel is operating; or (ii) the State’s laws and regulations are consistent with the fishery management plan a
quote:
Originally posted by Capt_KeithWes as I said I’m going against the bill… Just think everyone need to know the truth about it and who it will help and not help is all. So that the Guides and Charter/Headboats guys do not get slammed like they are now on here for not showing up…
Captain Keith
Myrtle Beach SC
North Myrtle Beach Fishing Charters
http://www.NorthMyrtleBeachFishingCharters.com
If you are against this one. Which one are you for?
What are you proposing? What are you doing at the state level to stop the federal governments take over of our resource?
Representative Goldfinch has put a foot forward and as of now making progress. Hats off to his efforts!
Set the trap boys, we going to pass through them again!!
quote:
Originally posted by Capt_KeithScoutin 4 Goodies… I DID NOT SAY I WAS FOR OR AGAIN THIS BILL…
Captain Keith
Myrtle Beach SC
North Myrtle Beach Fishing Charters
http://www.NorthMyrtleBeachFishingCharters.com
???
See YOUR post before this one!!!
Set the trap boys, we going to pass through them again!!
Here is what your federal agents have to do if they want to preempt state law in state waters. According to their own regs…
They have to meet a heightened standard, hold a hearing, and prove that the state’s management is harmful to the fishery management plan.
Again, DNR stated, on the record, this change in state law would be okay.
Title 50: Wildlife and Fisheries
PART 600MAGNUSON-STEVENS ACT PROVISIONS
Subpart GPreemption of State Authority Under Section 306(b)
600.605General policy.
It is the policy of the Secretary that preemption proceedings will be conducted expeditiously. The administrative law judge and counsel or other representative for each party are encouraged to make every effort at each stage of the proceedings to avoid delay.
50 C.F.R. 600.610Factual findings for Federal preemption.
Title 50: Wildlife and Fisheries
PART 600MAGNUSON-STEVENS ACT PROVISIONS
Subpart GPreemption of State Authority Under Section 306(b)
600.610Factual findings for Federal preemption.
(a) The two factual findings for Federal preemption of state management authority over a fishery are:
(1) The fishing in a fishery that is covered by an FMP implemented under the Magnuson-Stevens Act is engaged in predominately within the EEZ and beyond such zone.
(2) A state has taken any action, or omitted to take any action, the results of which will substantially and adversely affect the carrying out of such FMP.
(b) Whether fishing is engaged in predominately within or beyond the EEZ will be determined after consideration of relevant factors, including but not limited to, the catch (based on numbers, value, or weight of fish caught, or other relevant factors) or fishing effort during the appropriate period, and in light of historical patterns of the distribution of catch or fishing effort for such stock or stocks of fish.
(c) Whether relevant effects are substantial will be determined after consideration of the magnitude of such actual or potential effects. Relevant to this determination ar
This is the last I’m going to say about this…
I have talk to Col Taylor with DNR a number of time on on this issues. He is tell me if you are a Guide, Charter/Headboat with S/G CHARTER/HEADBOAT PERMIT OR ATLANTIC HMS ANGLING PERMIT you will be wrote a ticket for harvesting Black Sea Bass in state wateRS in a federal closed season…
Till you can find me a Lawyer and Judge that will fight DNR and feds on this and can win it.I will stand my ground on this one…
YES THIS IS AWESOME BILL FOR THE RECREATIONAL FISHERMEN! And a good job Representative Goldfinch doing to helping the recreational fishermen! I’m not fighting the bill. If I want to fight it I would of been at the hearing.
All I’m trying to say is it will not help the Charter/Headboats guide that are fishing legal… And this need to be made black and white and not gray is all.…
Captain Keith
Myrtle Beach SC
North Myrtle Beach Fishing Charters
http://www.NorthMyrtleBeachFishingCharters.com
quote:
Originally posted by skinneejI don’t want to be seen as an antagonist, but I would like to back a subtle point that knot @ work might be making… Asking people to come to Columbia takes a lot of effort. If you expect masses of people to come, they obviously cannot do it every single time there is a bill. Though we would like to, it’s not practical. Therefore, if you are going to ask the masses to come, the bill must be some kind of “game changer”. It has to be BIG and it has to be BOLD… I feel that while many people feel this bill is a STEP in the right direction, it’s not BIG enough. If you are going to ask the masses to gather around and support something, you will likely only get ONE or TWO shots at it… Therefore the strategy of chipping away in this manner is not scalable. We have to put our BEST FOOT FORWARD with a bill that truly changes the game and then ask the masses to gather around that. If it’s only possible to get a mass of people maybe ONE or TWO times, wouldn’t we want to start out with something more disruptive?
Again, I truly APPRECIATE this bill and I am glad it is circulating through. But, I think that there needs to be a unified strategy on how to attack this issue, so let’s not beat around the bush.
If you don’t get your message across first with a bill getting discussion on all the issues, then you will be squelched by opposition when you try to go all or nothing all up front. The person who gets the first sentence and the first donations in is who wins at politics.
Introducing a bill and getting it passed are two different things. Come spend some time at the statehouse and you will understand a little more…
The showing of support was great for this bill. There is no need to beat up on anyone for not showing. The snowball will get bigger. The mess
quote:
Originally posted by Capt_KeithWes, If the Inshore Guide has a ATLANTIC HMS ANGLING PERMIT for Sharks witch he has to have if he keeping sharks he fall under the The federal regulation citation is 50 C.F.R. section 622.49(b)(ii):
Not going to argue on the forum with you all about this. You or DNR does not write the tickets… We still have to deal the NOAA officers and USCG writing us ticket for keeping Black Sea Bass. I’m not a lawyer I’m a fishermen and Know the laws… I do no trust lawyer and I have to go with the the people who will write me a ticket will… All need to be aware there are two side to this. And i have checked in to this very deep and what I’m saying is the truth…
Wes as I said I’m going against the bill… Just think everyone need to know the truth about it and who it will help and not help is all. So that the Guides and Charter/Headboats guys do not get slammed like they are now on here for not showing up…
Captain Keith
Myrtle Beach SC
North Myrtle Beach Fishing Charters
http://www.NorthMyrtleBeachFishingCharters.com
What you are saying is not all sides of the truth. It is only one side of it. I want desperately for you to understand this.
Tell me what judge handles the tickets…
They will not write you tickets that the judge throws out.
Again I tell you, though, even if the Feds get their way and only pay attention to the agency regs and not the controlling legislation, you still are arguing against 300+ days of access for the rest of us. Dnr says minimal impact on the ACL. Georgia already keeps their state waters open.
Why are you fighting this?
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