Capt. Larry Teuton
Swamp Worshiper
quote:.
Originally posted by skinneejleadenwahboy, thanks for the explanation. Yes, I agree that retro-actively, it would be a massive undertaking, but two things could EASILY happen:
- Force end users to register their existing firearms and create legislation that putâs stiff fines and penalties for anyone caught with an unregistered firearm.
- Impose new regulations on guns manufactured after a given date that forces electronic tracking (i.e. get rid of paper records and move to electronic records going forward for NEW sales).
Letâs be frank, nobody likes paper and virtually everyone is moving to electronic records of some sort. Thereâs no way we will still be doing all of this on paper 10 years from now.
The reason they are paper is just because itâs foolproof (unless lost or destroyed) and the gov cannot âmonitorâ it from who knows where. The whole point is so that they do not know what you have. That was the whole goal of the laws written (suggested by the NRA no less) all those years ago. We all agree that background checks are necessary, but relaying the info on what the citizen bought should not be transmitted to .gov.
NOW, they have issued a rule change. Dealers may move to electronic records, as long as they comply with the ATFâs rules. Basically you can make a spreadsheet out of your A&D book, as long as it conforms to their guidelines.
Also, some companies have come out with online versions, which you pay to have âmanagedâ and have use of the software. I tried to go this route and then realized that that system could easily be seen by NSA or whomever wanted to.
Paper is the way to go, and the way it should stay in my opinion.
Weâve been doing paper since the law came out, and the technology has always been there to compile it into digital form. But that wou
And those are the reasons the left wants it to go digital
Boat drinks, Waitress I need 2 more boat drinks!
quote:
Originally posted by Too BusyAnd those are the reasons the left wants it to go digital
Boat drinks, Waitress I need 2 more boat drinks!
Am I missing something? Iâm involved in the industry, and have not seen anywhere where anyone is even suggesting making this record keeping system digital?
The digital system they want is the NICS e-Check (which I already use). When you go to a gun store and buy a gun, and they call the 4473 in, it is a giant waste of time. It can be done online in less that 2 minutes, without dealing with low-wage people who donât like their job that sound like they have marbles in their mouth when they talk to you. The system was rolled out a while ago. Some refuse to use it for some reason or another, but most are jumping all over it.
I can punch in a request, and by the time Iâm done with the next one, the first one is completed. Sometimes theyâre done in as little as 20 seconds after SUBMIT is clicked on.
Wadmalaw native
16â Bentz-Craft Flats Boat
No, you are correct. Iâm just looking down the road a bit. Offering to Make record keeping digital to make life easier is a first step.
Offering a convenient website to take care of record keeping. Itâs a slippery slope. I expect quite a few would naturally fall prey without giving as much thought as you did to the potential implications.
Boat drinks, Waitress I need 2 more boat drinks!
We are talking about the same Federal government that now requires a business to put your health insurance benefits on your W-2, and the same government that can now fine you for not having health insurance, arenât we??? I wonder how ludicrous this would have sounded 10 years agoâŚ
The bottom line is that the government is posturing itself to have âaccountabilityâ in the gun ownership\sales process. You canât do that without an electronic sales\reporting\transfer system in place. Once that is in place, you can count on it being the future. Living on paper records over the next 20 years isnât reality. Itâs going to change. We will be lucky to find papers\printers 20 years from now.
Capt. Larry Teuton
Swamp Worshiper
quote:
Originally posted by Cracker LarryCapt. Larry Teuton
Swamp Worshiper
That lying âŚ, but what do you expect from him!
We will be lucky to find papers\printers 20 years from now.
Depends on the rag-heads, sooner or later theyâll figure out the amount of pain and turmoil they can cause without killing people. Then weâll be back to paper and printers. At least until they start in on the electrical grid ⌠
If this has already been talked about, I apologize.
But can someone in the NFA industry explain to me what is about to change in regards to NFA trust laws. If I am about to buy a silencer or SBR, does even matter in the grand scheme, or should I do it sooner than later?
Thanks,
âWailordâ
1979 17â Montauk
90 Johnson
Wilderness Ride 115
quote:
Originally posted by skinneejWe are talking about the same Federal government that now requires a business to put your health insurance benefits on your W-2, and the same government that can now fine you for not having health insurance, arenât we???
The bottom line is that the government is posturing itself to have âaccountabilityâ in the gun ownership\sales process. You canât do that without an electronic sales\reporting\transfer system in place. Once that is in place, you can count on it being the future. Living on paper records over the next 20 years isnât reality. Itâs going to change. We will be lucky to find papers\printers 20 years from now.
Baby steps, right? Just what America needs, Bigger Government with more control over those that are suppose to control IT.
âIf Bruce Jenner can keep his wiener and be called a woman, I can keep my firearms and be considered disarmed.â
quote:
Originally posted by GeronimoIf this has already been talked about, I apologize.
But can someone in the NFA industry explain to me what is about to change in regards to NFA trust laws. If I am about to buy a silencer or SBR, does even matter in the grand scheme, or should I do it sooner than later?
Thanks,
âWailordâ
1979 17â Montauk
90 JohnsonWilderness Ride 115
The reason the trust thing got so popular was to avoid the CLEO sign-off that was required for standard NFA paperwork. Having a trust meant that the trust was purchasing the item, so no fingerprints or photos were required, and no CLEO signature. That was the whole allure. But the trustee still had to complete a 4473 upon pickup of an NFA item.
Now, since the trust thing took off, they want to do away with the ability to be a trustee and only go through a 4473 BGC to reveive item. They now want all trustees to go through fingerprinting and photos and all for EVERY item purchased in the trust. So if you/me/joe/johnny are on the trust, we all would have to be checked prior to receipt. No big deal really in my opinion.
But the whole benefit of the trust is gone now using those rules. A normal person can just do the paperwork, and now without CLEO sign off, process is a tad quicker. Still need fingerprints and photos and paperwork, same as it ever was.
My trust will not be dissolved. I will continue to use it for the sole reason that I do not want their to be any headache when dealing with my NFA items when I pass away. My beneficiaries are clearly named.
YMMV
Wadmalaw native
16â Bentz-Craft Flats Boat
Wow, so something that actually made sense came out of the EO? This should make it easier for those living in an area with a CLEO that just didnât want those items circulating since now they are just notified, and no signature is required. Sounds like he made it easier for those that can own an NFA item to be able to get it?
âWailordâ
1979 17â Montauk
90 Johnson
Wilderness Ride 115
So I wonât need the CLEO to sign off on my form 4 to get a silencer now?
If Obozo is so concerned about gun violence, I wonder why federal prosecution of gun related crimes have gone down more than 40% during his tenure? I personally know of an incident where a person in the possession of 7 stolen weapons was of âno interestâ to the local ATF office. Why? Someone in possession of stolen weapons should be charged, tried and if convicted, punished severely.
âApathy is the Glove into Which Evil Slips Itâs Handâ, but really, who cares?
quote:
Originally posted by GeronimoWow, so something that actually made sense came out of the EO? This should make it easier for those living in an area with a CLEO that just didnât want those items circulating since now they are just notified, and no signature is required. Sounds like he made it easier for those that can own an NFA item to be able to get it?
âWailordâ
1979 17â Montauk
90 JohnsonWilderness Ride 115
Yes, this seems to be the only good thing in any of it IMHO.
Wadmalaw native
16â Bentz-Craft Flats Boat
quote:
Originally posted by EdistodanielSo I wonât need the CLEO to sign off on my form 4 to get a silencer now?
Correct, if this becomes LAW, which has a long way to go before that happens. Donât hold your breathâŚonce they figure out that theyâre making it EASIER to get NFA items, they will backpedal.
Wadmalaw native
16â Bentz-Craft Flats Boat
quote:
Originally posted by DFreedomIf Obozo is so concerned about gun violence, I wonder why federal prosecution of gun related crimes have gone down more than 40% during his tenure? I personally know of an incident where a person in the possession of 7 stolen weapons was of âno interestâ to the local ATF office. Why? Someone in possession of stolen weapons should be charged, tried and if convicted, punished severely.
âApathy is the Glove into Which Evil Slips Itâs Handâ, but really, who cares?
Only 7? Thatâs small time stuff for them! Theyâd rather charge me with a felony for writing a date as 1/8/16 instead of 01/08/2016 on a form. Itâs truly silly.
I have a feeling all of these âextraâ agents will merely be there to hassle dealers, to make people not want to be gun dealersâŚ
Wadmalaw native
16â Bentz-Craft Flats Boat
Iâll say it again ONE BILLION DOLLARS
The Skinny Socialist sure is good at pissing away our money
Boat drinks, Waitress I need 2 more boat drinks!
quote:
Originally posted by DFreedomIf Obozo is so concerned about gun violence, I wonder why federal prosecution of gun related crimes have gone down more than 40% during his tenure? I personally know of an incident where a person in the possession of 7 stolen weapons was of âno interestâ to the local ATF office. Why? Someone in possession of stolen weapons should be charged, tried and if convicted, punished severely.
âApathy is the Glove into Which Evil Slips Itâs Handâ, but really, who cares?
Had a pistol stolen from me and the buttmuches scratched through the serial number, but as on all my weapons I have a hidden mark. My last initial and last four of my S S like in basic training on my underwear and t shirts.
Got my pistol back due to some awesome police work! The kicker was nothing was done to them for altering the serial number. I believe that is suppose to me a mandatory 5-10 year sentence?
Like a few have stated earlier, we have good laws for illegal firearm use. They just are not enforced. Lets start enforcing the existing laws rather than make more.
âIf Bruce Jenner can keep his wiener and be called a woman, I can keep my firearms and be considered disarmed.â