quote:
Originally posted by skinneejquote:
Originally posted by Warblerquote:
Originally posted by skinneejquote:Not if we put up signs in their natural coyote language that threatens to send them to gitmo if they are ever caught eating off of Warbler's picnic table like the hounds do now...
Originally posted by Cracker LarryI’m with you on the coyotes, they all need to be gone, but I’m afraid we are stuck with them.
Did you locate that law I was asking about…the one that would provide for a fine under my “picnic table” scenario?
I didn’t realize I had a homework assignment. Why would I research that? Wouldn’t it be more efficient if you just pointed me to it?
quote:Well, are there ANY fines enforced? Why not just enforce existing measures? You could make the fine 10 million dollars, but if
My proposed penalties (huge fines, jail time) are extreme, no doubt. But the point is that there needs to be some incentive for the doggers not to let their hounds roam free. Clearly, as things currently stand, no such incentive exists.The first rule of fight club is…
quote:I think my keyboard is running out of batteries answering this question... I don't know of any existing measures. That is why I asked you that question... What I am trying to tell you is that IF there were some measures, such as a MAXIMUM fine of $425 (which I believe is the going rate for the standard citation nowadays), that it would be plenty fair and a huge deterrent... You are over here campaigning for jail time, 5k fines per dog, loss of hunting rig---privileges, and beheading... What I am telling you is that what you are asking for is not constitutional or just. A simple fine would act as a hefty deterrent if it was implemented. Most "doggers" I know pay between $500 and $1500 each year to join a club. So, a max fine of $425 per violation per dog is a pretty hefty one relative to the dues that they are willing to pay.
Originally posted by WarblerI asked you to point me to the law b/c I haven’t a clue what law you’re talking about. Existing measures? What existing measures? You point me to the law that saves landowners like me from the problems we’re experiencing with doggers. I’d love to see it.
This argument is fun and all, but it’s really all academic at this point. Doggers are going the way of the do-do bird, and they have nobody to blame except themselves.
The first rule of fight club is…
Once again… I support the implementation of REASONABLE fines… I think the other things you asked for are ridiculous…
quote:That's not true... Some doggers have done things very legitimately. They would argue that yankees with new field and stream subscriptions coming down buying up small tracts of land next to their dog club and whining every time they see a dog is the problem. My dad has had the same lease for over 40 years!!! And in the blink of an eye, some whiny elitist neighbors were able to eliminate dog hunting just from a phone call. I'm sure that they feel better about themselves now for kicking out the "doggers", but I'm also pretty sure that it didn't make them better hunters or kill any more deer.
Originally posted by WarblerDoggers are going the way of the do-do bird, and they have nobody to blame except themselves.
Again, my father quit running dogs on his club probably a decade now. They received a complaint on a day there weren’t even hunting! It was because a land owner didn’t like the idea of dogs in the area and called to the timber company and lied about it dogs on his property! Timber company gave him a warning to pull the lease and he stopped dog hunting.
Not only was he not in the wrong, he actually stopped dog hunting without any 5K fines or jail time. And I am glad my poor dad didn’t go to jail over being falsely accused of something.
Maybe dnr should start a deer relocation project for those of you that don’t have enough deer on your land. In some areas the deer herds are to thick. They devastate crops cause people to crash their vehicles etc. I just don’t see a need for tags for every deer a hunter kills. I’m sure some of you have heard of CWD.
quote:
Originally posted by skinneejquote:That's not true... Some doggers have done things very legitimately. They would argue that yankees with new field and stream subscriptions coming down buying up small tracts of land next to their dog club and whining every time they see a dog is the problem. My dad has had the same lease for over 40 years!!! And in the blink of an eye, some whiny elitist neighbors were able to eliminate dog hunting just from a phone call. I'm sure that they feel better about themselves now for kicking out the "doggers", but I'm also pretty sure that it didn't make them better hunters or kill any more deer.
Originally posted by WarblerDoggers are going the way of the do-do bird, and they have nobody to blame except themselves.
Again, my father quit running dogs on his club probably a decade now. They received a complaint on a day there weren’t even hunting! It was because a land owner didn’t like the idea of dogs in the area and called to the timber company and lied about it dogs on his property! Timber company gave him a warning to pull the lease and he stopped dog hunting.
Not only was he not in the wrong, he actually stopped dog hunting without any 5K fines or jail time. And I am glad my poor dad didn’t go to jail over being falsely accused of something.
I’d bet your Dad did it right when he ran his dog club. If it makes you feel any better, the timber companies were going to pull the dogger leases eventually no matter what phone calls from neighbors they received…too much liability.
And, as for fines, I know my examples of proposed fines were extreme—I
Warbler- A lowcountry lawyer kept having problems with a certain dog club and instead of sueing the dog club he sued the landowner who leased the land to them. Case was settled out of court and that is when IP, Mead Westvaco etc. started shutting down their dog leases. This took place probably ten years ago. My point is that the precendent has been set. You all should take the time to read Georgias dog hunting bill, it is definitely what we need here and doggers should get on board if they want the “tradition” to continue. Interesting points here, certainly has strayed from its original intent.
quote:
Originally posted by Cracker Larryquote:
It opens a whole new can of worms, but the fox pens have released many coyotes accidentally. Many of the pens I have seen are only one good thunderstorm away from a limb falling on the ragged fence and letting 50 or more coyotes go at once.
But all those yotes who escape the pens were originally caught in the wild, to stock the pen to start with, so it changes nothing. They don’t breed in a fox pen.
Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats“Ships are the nearest things to dreams that hands have ever made.” -Robert N. Rose
Coyotes are not and never were indigenous to South Carolina. There are many rumors/conspiracies as to who actually brought them to SC but either way, they escaped someone’s custody and now plague this state.
No matter how much it hurts, how dark it gets, or how far you fall…you are never out of the fight.
quote:
Originally posted by docsordersMaybe dnr should start a deer relocation project for those of you that don’t have enough deer on your land. In some areas the deer herds are to thick. They devastate crops cause people to crash their vehicles etc. I just don’t see a need for tags for every deer a hunter kills. I’m sure some of you have heard of CWD.
This mentality is one of the main obstacles standing in the way of sound herd management in this state. People can’t see any further than their own backyard. The DNR has a much larger area of responsibility to take into consideration. If a “limit” is set in your area and you don’t think it’s applicable to your property, the DNR has programs available to help your specific management needs. That said, the number one battle cry for those that want to exercise the “brown and down” management method and the “I shot more deer than you” management method is “we have too many deer where I live.”
You say “…for those of you that don’t have enough deer on your land.” What exactly is “enough” and what is your background that gives you the knowledge base that let’s you know what is “enough?” The DNR doesn’t set limits based on who they hope they can make mad or simply to flex their authority. They base limits, and the subsequent tags, on the carrying capacity of the habitat and the needs of the resource itself…AS IT SHOULD BE. When hunters can’t practice proper trigger management AND you have predator issues (both cases are rampant in SC), the DNR steps in to make sure some semblance of order and management prevails or at least exists. They (DNR) don’t show up where you work and try to tell you how to do your job, so why not extend them the same professional courtesy and let them do their job.
No matter how much it hurts, how dark it gets, or how far you fall
quote:most informative post in this dog and pony show.thank you bangstick for pointing that out.
Originally posted by bangstickquote:
Originally posted by Cracker Larryquote:
It opens a whole new can of worms, but the fox pens have released many coyotes accidentally. Many of the pens I have seen are only one good thunderstorm away from a limb falling on the ragged fence and letting 50 or more coyotes go at once.
But all those yotes who escape the pens were originally caught in the wild, to stock the pen to start with, so it changes nothing. They don’t breed in a fox pen.
Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats“Ships are the nearest things to dreams that hands have ever made.” -Robert N. Rose
Coyotes are not and never were indigenous to South Carolina. There are many rumors/conspiracies as to who actually brought them to SC but either way, they escaped someone’s custody and now plague this state.
No matter how much it hurts, how dark it gets, or how far you fall…you are never out of the fight.
A deer will make grown men act like 6 year olds…
I had a phone call last night from a neighbor, told me he was going turn out his coon hounds in the branch behind my property and asked me if I minded. Told me his hounds may cross his line and onto my land and wanted to make sure I wouldn’t be bothered by them, and wanted me to know who’s dogs they were and who was in the woods with flashlights in the middle of the night.
I told them to have at it, and if they needed to cross my line for a treed coon or to catch a hound, go ahead. Also told them thanks for calling and asking. They turned out about 11 pm, and I listened to the hounds for a while and went to bed.
Good neighbors respect each other and work together, and we all get along 
Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats
“Ships are the nearest things to dreams that hands have ever made.” -Robert N. Rose
quote:
Originally posted by salty849A deer will make grown men act like 6 year olds…
No need to insult 6 year olds! 
No matter how much it hurts, how dark it gets, or how far you fall…you are never out of the fight.
Maybe DNR should institute some kind of credit towards the insanely expensive $1.88/deer tag for every coyote you kill.
quote:
Originally posted by Cracker LarryI had a phone call last night from a neighbor, told me he was going turn out his coon hounds in the branch behind my property and asked me if I minded. Told me his hounds may cross his line and onto my land and wanted to make sure I wouldn’t be bothered by them, and wanted me to know who’s dogs they were and who was in the woods with flashlights in the middle of the night.
I told them to have at it, and if they needed to cross my line for a treed coon or to catch a hound, go ahead. Also told them thanks for calling and asking. They turned out about 11 pm, and I listened to the hounds for a while and went to bed.
Good neighbors respect each other and work together, and we all get along
Capt. Larry Teuton
Cracker Built Custom Boats“Ships are the nearest things to dreams that hands have ever made.” -Robert N. Rose
Some people can’t possibly fathom that, Larry. It’s my land, no one else should be even sniffing the property line! Makes you wonder what may be going on in there if you don’t want anyone on your land that badly.
'06 Mckee Craft
184 Marathon
DF140 Suzuki
quote:Moonshiners!!!
Originally posted by tigerfinSome people can’t possibly fathom that, Larry. It’s my land, no one else should be even sniffing the property line! Makes you wonder what may be going on in there if you don’t want anyone on your land that badly.
'06 Mckee Craft
184 Marathon
DF140 Suzuki
quote:Ha. Maybe the amount will increase for every one you kill. First kill is $1.88, second is $5,000, third kill is a million, 4th kill is a "get out of jail free" card... That way, the more you kill coyotes, the more you are allowed to run dogs on Warbler's land.
Originally posted by EdistodanielMaybe DNR should institute some kind of credit towards the insanely expensive $1.88/deer tag for every coyote you kill.
http://www.dnr.sc.gov/wildlife/coyote/
“Coyotes first appeared in the upstate in 1978, they are now present in all counties of South Carolina.
Coyotes were illegally imported into South Carolina for hound running.”
It was the dang upstate yankees!!! Probably the same guys down here in the lowcountry complaining about dog hunting!!!
quote:
Originally posted by EdistodanielMaybe DNR should institute some kind of credit towards the insanely expensive $1.88/deer tag for every coyote you kill.
“Insanely expensive?” Please tell me that was sarcasm.
No matter how much it hurts, how dark it gets, or how far you fall…you are never out of the fight.
quote:Of course it was!
Originally posted by bangstickquote:
Originally posted by EdistodanielMaybe DNR should institute some kind of credit towards the insanely expensive $1.88/deer tag for every coyote you kill.
“Insanely expensive?” Please tell me that was sarcasm.
No matter how much it hurts, how dark it gets, or how far you fall…you are never out of the fight.
I need to start putting sarcasm and hyperbolic exaggeration in italics from here on out I think