Does anyone know for sure (actually has this set up) if a Racor spin on will fit the Moeller base. I have seen both yes and no on the web and I can’t get a straight answer from either manufacturer. Racor proprietary thread pattern blah blah blah. I like the composite head but Moeller doesn’t make a 2 Mic. Anyone?
what do you need a 2 micron for? Its a bit restrictive, normally I on;y see them on fuel polishers. 10 micron is usually a good balance between filtering ability and restriction
I ran a 2 micron element on the moeller composite head with clear bowl on my 21 mako and 200 HPDI for over a year before I sold the boat.
The 2 micron is a huge upgrade, and I will have it for sure on my new boat. The internal filters on the HPDI and 4 strokes with EFI are 2 micron. Why wouldn’t you want one ahead of the engine instead of 10 micron?
I used to have to change out the 85 dollar yamagucci mid pressure filter every year. 2 micron between the vapor separator and injector pump. The injectors also have 2 micron screens. After the 2 micron water separator ahead of the engine I didn’t have to blow 85 bucks every year. You do need to change the 2 micron racor out every couple months though. Spareparts is exactly right about them being more prone to restriction. Guess what though… that means it’s doing its job!
I’m not a mechanic or anything but I’m telling you right now I would definately go with this setup if I were you considering the junk sold at some gas stations now… Keep an extra element on board.
I went with composite because it holds up better than painted junk and was far less expensive than stainless. Had mine in direct sunlight for over a year like I said, and I don’t see any harm. Can take a pic of it right now if you’d like to see how it looks. The guy who bought my 21 is local.
2 micron is what most all diesels absolutely require, btw.
Racor just started making the 2 micron element for gasoline applications.
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Luke 8:22-25
put a vacuum gauge on it, if it pulls more than 2" of vacuum at WOT, your asking for trouble. Most diesels run 10 micron, you’ll see 2 micron on transfer pumps, polishers, and small diesels with big filters. You can run 2 micron if you stay on top of it, I’ve known people that do, but for the most part, general users, you’re better off with 10 micron
Vacuum test is good to know if you have fuel restriction in general… With any filter.
All I’m saying is that the filters under the cowling on an hpdi are 2 micron…
Top end is lost when these expensive filters clog up. Recommended service on them is every 100 hours or every season.
The injector screens and vapor sep screen and mid pressure filter are ALL 2 micron.
Do you want to replace a racor’s for 15 bucks or a Yama Gucci for 85 on a regular basis?
Back to your original question… There are two common sizes for the spin on elements. Match the size and no problem. I have the setup on my old boat and will repeat on my new boat.
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Luke 8:22-25
the filters under the cowling in the VST and the high pressure filter are under pressure, while the water separator filter is under vacuum.I restriction on the vacuum side of the fuel system is asking for trouble. You can run 2 micron if you change them often, and stay on top of your service, which most people don’t.
I agree and disagree to some extent.
I agree that lack of maintenance will mean restriction with a 2 micron. But the restriction will happen at one point or another. Question is do you want to prevent the restriction of the expensive filters or at least attempt to?
As far as vacuum vs pressured, here’s where I’m coming from… Please correct where I could very well be wrong.
Fuel system on my hpdi went like this:
Main fuel tank
2 micron racor fuel water separator (vacuum)
Primer bulb
10 micron On motor fuel water sep with water sensor (vacuum)
Low pressure pumps
2 micron vst screen (low pressured)
Vst mid pressure pump
2 micron mid pressure canister filter (50 psi pressurized)
High pressure pump with 2 micron screen 700psi
Injector screens 2 micron (highly pressurized)
Injectors
So on the motor there are 4 levels of 2 micron filtration. Any of these clog and you get huge problems ranging from 85 bucks to engine blowing up…
The first 2 micron level is low pressure. Not much dif from the vacuum per engine filtration to me. You’ve got to strain the particles out at some point. The cheapest place is ahead of the engine.
I agree that if you want to do nothing then just roll with 10 micron and let the engine filters clog up. Mechanic makes more money and gets to blame the problems on ethanol and everyone’s happy in the end… Sorry for the sarcasm.
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Luke 8:22-25
Any one who thinks ethanol is not the root of all evil is either employed by the goverment or the corn lobby. What spare is saying is that you can have too much filtration and he is correct about high vacuum readings they make mechanics happier than changing over priced filters.
Sarcasm should have also mentioned how using the same filters today as in the 90s must mean outboard fuel systems haven’t changed since the 90s.
Wonder why racor put a gasoline 2 micron fuel water separator on the market?
They must be seriously misled in the area of fuel filtration.
Ethanol sux, but thinking yamahas 4 levels of 2 micron filtration is pointless if you don’t use ethanol isn’t what anyone said.
Filters stop up faster when 2 micron. Particles over 2 micron obviously are very bad for an hpdi. Why not try to stop them with a cheaper filter instead of just what yamaha pu in? Which ones do you want to replace more often? Cheap or expensive? The flow ratings on the racor exceed what an engine can burn, so if you get restriction then the filter is doing its job and it’s time for replacement! Regular change on a 2 micron racor makes to much sense to me; don’t get why folks would disagree.
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Luke 8:22-25
2 micron racor s3228sul element has a 60gph flow rate, which is identical to the 10 micron element rated flow at the same vacuum.
Fwiw for those sensitive to restriction issues…
http://www.parker.com/literature/Racor/7702_Rev_D_(BRO_Marine_Gasoline_Fuel_Filters).pdf
If it gets restricted, it isn’t exactly a good solution to tell someone to use a 10 micron instead… Not when there’s a series of freakin expensive Yamaha 2 micron filters behind it.
Solution is changing the 2 micron racor regularly… Like a racor should be to begin with…
Filters are meant to be changed or either cleaned. Isn’t that the purpose? So again which ones do you want to deal with more often?
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Luke 8:22-25
Yamaha’s 10 micron is 90 gph.
I personally have used the 2 micron filters exclusively on my boat since I have had it (200 HPDIs). The individual who had the boat before me switched over to them because of the crappy gas in his area and his constant need to have to change the expensive 2 micron filter on the motor. He said he did not have a single issue after switching over. Said he would switch them out every hundred hours or so and was good to go. I have changed them around the same interval and have had no problems.
quote:
Originally posted by know it allYamaha’s 10 micron is 90 gph.
What outboards use more than 60gph? I hope I never have one…
The racor elements the original poster asked about are rated for 60 gallons per hour, whether they’re 2 micron or 10 micron. I posted the link above showing this. I went thru the same thing before going to a 2 micron gasoline racor element, which had just came onto the market.
I like the see thru bowl and drain valve that racor offers personally. I’m sure a Yamaha tech would be inclined to recommend Yamaha filtration be used though.
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Luke 8:22-25
It’s the ability to flow that much fuel, is it easier to restrict a filter that flows 60 gph or 90 gph? I dont care either way I just sweep the floor at wal-mart.
Definitely true.
All I’ve found is that the 2 micron per-engine filtration kept the on-engine filtration from getting clogged as frequently. I change out only the spin on element at about 18 bucks. It’s saved me from having issues totally. I’ve run the ring free in e10 since I’ve had the boat. Hope to keep ethanol out of the new boat completely though.
Maybe Yamaha will come out with a 2 micron someday with high flow rate as their element is a bit longer than these racor elements. An f350 probably would clog up a 2 micron racor in no time. Since I only have an f250 I will keep replacing 2 micron racor’s ahead of it. Hopefully that clear bowl shows me a problem before I suck up so much crud that the engine’s fuel pumps or other systems get hurt by my restrictive (when clogged) 2 micron racor. I plan to change the racor every time I change the oil filter. Gas is expensive, but yamagucci filters hurt me worse. I think it’s just the fact that when you look at how little of an object/material you just paid 85 bucks for that feeling just really never leaves your memory. Yamagucci is proud of their filters.
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Luke 8:22-25
Flow rates are measured under pressure, not vacuum, they are also rated when clean, not after you use them.The flow rated decrease as soon as you start using them. All the outboard manufactures(and Inboard)mandate no more than 2" mercury vacuum to prevent vapor lock. When you put a liquid under vacuum, it decreases the boiling point to the point it can boil at room temperature, causing vapor lock and lean conditions. Racor makes 2 micron filters, but they also make vacuum gauges for their filters to mind them. I’ve seen large Racor 2 micron filters on small engines that wouldn’t even begin to cause a restriction of notice. Racor makes filters for every conceivable liquid you can think of(Parker Hannifin)so just because they make it, doesn’t mean its the correct filter for your application. For most people, stay with the 10 micron large capacity filter, change the other filters per the factory recommendation. I taken VST’s apart, found them spotless, but found the high pressure filter stooped up, or the injectors clogged. The contamination can come from down stream of the filters, thats why they have them all the way to the injector.
Phin, I was interested in the link you posted, but it said it was a bad link, I tried to find the flow rates and method of testing on Racors site but came up empty. Last time I went to Racor’c class(been a few years) they told us they were measured under low pressure
Of any by btw, the Yamaha VX76-250 was rated at 47 GPH at WOT, the V8 Johnrudes were close to 58 GPH, the race version was rumored to be over 70 GPH, it would hold together for that long
Wow. That is quite a tome. I just got in from installing the new filter head. Much nicer than the crusty aluminum one I removed. 2 micron filter on order. Not too worried about fuel restriction, I keep up with maintenance pretty well and at 60 GPH flow rate on the element I should be fine. It’s hooked to a F150 that at cruise consumes barely more gas per hour than we do beer.
I would go with the 2 micron too! Those stupid engineers at Yamaha are only trying to sell expensive $85 filters. It is all a scam to charge boaters more. No reason to even call Yamaha and ask. They would probably tell you they had no idea and to consult an internet forum with TRUE experts.
Would this be evaluated if you had a warranty issue?
I hope you since the sarcasm, before you impact the fuel system of your boat call the motor manufacturer. Here what they have to say.
Then again you can buy an F250 for $16 to 18k brand new. Probably not worth the hassle… 
Set the trap boys, we going to pass through them again!!
if you think $85 for a filter is expensive, when they first came out with HPDI’s that filter was close to $300, they heard so much complaining from the dealers and customers, they dropped the price( it was close to $150 just three years ago). BTW, The opti filter from mercury retails for close to $80, the Mercruiser Cool Fuel filter is $68. I don’t know what any of the ETEC filters cost as I don’t work on any of them
quote:
Originally posted by sparepartsif you think $85 for a filter is expensive, when they first came out with HPDI’s that filter was close to $300, they heard so much complaining from the dealers and customers, they dropped the price( it was close to $150 just three years ago). BTW, The opti filter from mercury retails for close to $80, the Mercruiser Cool Fuel filter is $68. I don’t know what any of the ETEC filters cost as I don’t work on any of them
The racor 2 micron is the fix all to this! I predict tough financial times for Yamaha, Mercury, and ETEC once they lose the sale of these high end filters.
Sorry, I know I am a smarta$$.
Set the trap boys, we going to pass through them again!!