Red snapper opening

Saltwater Offshore Discussion
1

I wanted to make you aware of some good news: it’s likely the red snapper fishery in the South Atlantic will open this year.

There’s an emergency action to open the red snapper fishery on the South Atlantic Fishery Management Council’s agenda for its upcoming meeting on September 11-15 in Charleston, SC. The SAFMC’s preferred catch limit would allow recreational fishermen to land 29,656 fish and commercial to land 124,815 lb.

The emergency action projects an October 6th fishery opening date. Under the preferred catch limit alternative, the recreational season is projected to last six to twelve days and the commercial season year-round based on a 75 lb. trip limit.

Click here for the emergency action document:
https://goo.gl/9Zwpk2

Also, on the SAFMC’s agenda is Snapper-Grouper Amendment 43, which would establish red snapper annual catch limits starting in 2018.

Click here for the amendment:
https://goo.gl/YRurWa

It’s important to let the SAFMC know you support catch limit Alternative 5 for both the emergency action and Amendment 43, which is the largest catch limit under consideration.

Please click here to submit your comment:
https://safmc.wufoo.com/forms/wql4dgf0gzt64f/

How did we get to this point when as late as March the SAFMC still had an action under consideration to potentially close more large areas of bottom to fishing to “protect” red snapper and in June the SAFMC announced that red snapper discards exceeded the acceptable biological limit and there would be no 2017 season?

Incredibly, “recently discovered and unforeseen data” is the answer according to the emergency action.

An index from a long-term fishery independent survey was “discovered” that confirmed what most fishermen were seeing on the water: the red snapper population has exploded, with the population in 2016 three times higher than in 1990. And this population explosion occurred despite the limited red snapper fishing seasons from 2012 to 2014 and the dead di

2

so this isn’t some sort of trap??? when I read the bulletin earlier I felt like I was missing something and that it was almost too good to be true…I guess it is true about them wearing us down so that we will jump at anything that they give us.

3

The right hand dazzles your eyes while the
Left hand picks your pockets…

-Regulator 28fs
-Dolphin 18BC Pro
-Miscellaneous boats
“Everybody dances when shotgun sings” Stewart and Winfield

4

Done.

5
quote:
Originally posted by surfwrangler

so this isn’t some sort of trap??? when I read the bulletin earlier I felt like I was missing something and that it was almost too good to be true…I guess it is true about them wearing us down so that we will jump at anything that they give us.

I would agree with you if catch shares were the topic, but I think they realize that fishermen have been right the whole time. They would lose any credibility as an organization if they just opened it back up. The safe way for them to “unwind” their ridiculous assertions about red snapper is to open up a small quota and then increase it each year. Then, they can say, “look, it’s growing and we are good guys adjusting as the population grows”. It allows them to save face at this point.

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Comment submitted with a slight undertone of smarminess. :smiley:

God bless the “ignore” function.

7

Comment submitted.

Everyone submit one.

Thank you Tom.

8

Comment Submitted

Paul Alewine

“Pelagic Predator”
Augusta,Ga/Beaufort, Sc

9

so you think this is it for the whole RED SNAPPER crisis??? what will they move to next if the end game is still no fishing???

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quote:
Originally posted by surfwrangler

so you think this is it for the whole RED SNAPPER crisis??? what will they move to next if the end game is still no fishing???

There is no “no fishing end game”. That’s not the motivation. That’s only a scare tactic used to speak people into action. The problem with saying this (especially at the meetings) is that we (fishermen) lose credibility when this is proclaimed. There is no government conspiracy to keep people from fishing.

So, what IS their motivation? It’s really simple… These SEDAR scientists really do believe that the red snapper population is in an “overfished” status. Keep in mind 2 things… 1) In the grand scheme of things, fisheries management has really only been around for a “short time” (few decades), and 2) It might take decades to see results. So, they don’t have a long track record of trial and error or learning about what works and what does not, at least not in our specific waters\application. So, to fill this knowledge gap, they use techniques from other fisheries (i.e. hogfish in the keys) which have a very different set up circumstances. In other words, they try to shove a square peg in a round hole, and the more it doesn’t fit, the harder they push…

Additionally, the SAME PEOPLE (in leadership positions) have been around this entire time (since the 90’s). They are not innovators. The best thing they can do is to try to find new ways to prove their old problematic premises.

Understand their challenge. They have limited budget for both science and enforcement, and they are “managing” 80+ species of fish. So, how do you pull a rabbit out of that hat? To make a long story short, they want to evolve our fishery into something that looks like the Bahamas. You can fit Bahamian fishing laws on a post card. It’s bas

11

I guess I should have said "no fishing in large areas. " thanks for the insight

12
quote:
Originally posted by surfwrangler

I guess I should have said "no fishing in large areas. " thanks for the insight

When the RS crisis started, they tried for what they wanted. Not many people remember now, but they wanted to close seaward of 98’ feet and the RS was the poster child for the crisis. They missed that “opportunity”, so I see that they will probably fall back to a more sneaky approach into opening up a few more MPAs up and down the ledge every few years. “Death by 1000 paper cuts”. The ledge is like a fish super highway from north of us all the way to the keys. It’s also vital for spawning. So, I think that they will target it more. The shame is, they will get what they want (large parts of the ledge closed), but it will be just by chipping away at it as this stays under the public radar.

13

So this could play out as “look how well the population rebounded when we closed it and look how quickly the fisherman decimated the population!”. Is this the bait?

-Regulator 28fs
-Dolphin 18BC Pro
-Miscellaneous boats
“Everybody dances when shotgun sings” Stewart and Winfield

14

I guess I should have said "no fishing in large areas. " thanks for the insight

15
quote:
Originally posted by Island Boy

So this could play out as “look how well the population rebounded when we closed it and look how quickly the fisherman decimated the population!”. Is this the bait?

-Regulator 28fs
-Dolphin 18BC Pro
-Miscellaneous boats
“Everybody dances when shotgun sings” Stewart and Winfield

Highly doubtful. They've never been shy about moving forward with "the sky is falling" even without evidence. So, this doesn't seem to fit a need or the overarching narrative.
16
quote:
Originally posted by surfwrangler

I guess I should have said "no fishing in large areas. " thanks for the insight

That's fine. I'm just trying to paint the true picture here. They aren't "anti-fishing" as many believe. They are just clinging to broken models, and antiquated ideas because they are ignorant of the truth and have nothing else better to guide them.

When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

17

Hypothetical question here. Do you think there were fisherman saying the cod fish off the Grand Banks were not being overfished and that is was outrageous to impose restrictions in the North Atlantic? Do you think there are still guys who say there are plenty of bluefin and that the fisherman really know that there are millions of them out there? That all being said, yes I agree that red snapper seem to be doing well from my very limited perspective but I disagree that SAFMC or “the gubment” is out to get anyone - even Trumpian gubment. I think those folks have a tough job and it’s easy for armchair fishery biologists to criticize them. I would imagine there is someone out there who could criticize the job that each of us do. For the record, I’m not employed by any form of local, state, or federal government by a long shot. Ok, y’all take aim and fire away at me. I know it’s coming.

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Comments submitted. If you submit comments PLEASE request alternative 5, which would allow the largest number of red snapper to be harvested. There is a 25,000 individual fish difference between alternatives 4 and 5. Many of the comments submitted don’t specify which alternative they support, meaning we could be short-changed.

Sea Hunt 207CC,Yam F150
Carolina Skiff (old school model)17’ Suz D50

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Anyone who does not believe the federal govt. ( and hence the state dnr ) is not swayed by the Pew Environmental trust, PETA, and a dozen other well financed anti-fishing organizations is just not paying attention. Read “The World Is Blue” by Dr. Sylvia Earle, personal friend of the Bushes and Obama.

20
quote:
Originally posted by OccamsRaiser

Hypothetical question here. Do you think there were fisherman saying the cod fish off the Grand Banks were not being overfished and that is was outrageous to impose restrictions in the North Atlantic? Do you think there are still guys who say there are plenty of bluefin and that the fisherman really know that there are millions of them out there? That all being said, yes I agree that red snapper seem to be doing well from my very limited perspective but I disagree that SAFMC or “the gubment” is out to get anyone - even Trumpian gubment. I think those folks have a tough job and it’s easy for armchair fishery biologists to criticize them. I would imagine there is someone out there who could criticize the job that each of us do. For the record, I’m not employed by any form of local, state, or federal government by a long shot. Ok, y’all take aim and fire away at me. I know it’s coming.

I'm sorry. Weren't you the guy that couldn't tell the difference between a vermilion snapper and a red snapper? You keep saying that you don't have a dog in this fight, but you almost ALWAYS speak out against people who actually DO know the difference between a red snapper and a vermilion snapper.

Let me tell you the difference between cod and red snapper. With the cod fishery, it was the FISHERMEN who noticed a decline and BEGGED the government to step in and do something about it. The “science” and empirical evidence were in alignment.

With red snapper, the OPPOSITE is true. NO fishermen (except you) think that red snapper are a problem. And, EMPIRICAL evidence does NOT back the “science”. Meanwhile, fishermen are complaining about a shortage of grouper while they are saying we only caught half of our quota.

At what point to YOU apply Occam’s razor?