Is there going to be any legislation to propose any changes on the Santee Cooper system for the 2018-19 year? I think it is about time that they start considering it.
2013 Ranger Z21 Intracoastal 250 hp Yamaha VMAX SHO
Sure is time. The Santee Cooper striped bass stakeholders advisory group, put together 8 plus years ago, came up with a suggested change, only to have it killed by one representative in 2016. It was held up again and edited/compromised in the legislative process in 2017. Currently, there are different bills passed by the house and the senate, which have to be reconciled. One looks like it will be sustainable, the other not so much. Like the saying goes “no one needs to see their sausage or laws being made,” as it ain’t pretty. Nuff said, particularly in this climate of freely belittling folks with whom we disagree.
Man the SC House and Senate are like DC politicians Dems don’t like Rep so they wont sign each others bill. You would think sound science from DNR would be enough or better yet give DNR regulatory authority.
I’ll probably get hammered for this, but I’m putting it out there anyway.
There was a time not too, too long ago (80’s to early to mid 90’s) when the Wateree River from the Wateree Dam down to and including Lake Marion was full of really nice Rockfish. That changed drastically in the late 90’s and into the early part of this century when both population and size dwindled. Hence the need for the fishery law changes that are in place today.
Without giving too many specific details, I personally witnessed the raping of the resource. Details that make me sick to my stomach. I’ve seen jon boats in the river that you couldn’t step on the floor because of the fish. You would think that they would sink. The mentality was/is “catch and keep them until they quit biting”. It was a bragging point, a source of pride to bring these fish back to the many private landings along the river for their buddies to see. There was no enforcement, no DNR presence. 20+ years later, it still makes me sick on my stomach to recall how those responsible were able/allowed to get away with it.
All that being said, if the laws are relaxed due to an improved fishery, enforcement needs to be stepped up, especially up the Wateree River where many of those same folks still continue to fish today. And my suggestion for that stepped up enforcement needs to be as much or more land based as by boat. Those guys hear boats coming a long ways off. DNR should learn where ALL the private landings are and keep a close check on them.
I promise that in the past, I’ve heard ALL the stories, ALL the bragging of how so-and-so “killed the fish today” and are going back again tomorrow.
Thinking back, it still makes me want to puke…
Full disclosure: I don’t fish the Wateree River anymore and haven’t fished it in ~20 years. When I did fish there, it was running bush hooks for catfish, never fished for Rockfish. So I don’t really “have a dog in this fight”, but I saw the fish and I do know right from wrong…
-The s
B-hunter; your story,sadly enough,is mostly dead on,still today.
All you have to do is read “between the lines” at all the opposition voiced if there is any mention of reducing limits,increasing sizes,temporary closures,ect,ect, especially when such is advised by scientific proof , not political …Politics are BS in these cases!
Part of the reason the Santee striper fishery collapsed back in the 90’s was the largest stocking in history of grass carp, combined with the dumping of extended release poison pellets and nonstop spraying to kill hydrilla.
The result was the nursery the grass provided young fish and bait disappeared, and the overall fishery for several species declined.
A few years ago hydrilla, along with beneficial mative grasses like eel grass became re-established, and fishing for all species improved dramatically.
Now Santee Cooper Power has done their best to kill it all off again. Look at Google Earth or Bing Map images of Santee, you can see big beds of eelgrass established all over the lakes. Now they’re gone.
The striper fishery will decrease again, the bait and young gamefish have lost their hiding place and food source.
No sense in lightening the regulations, they’ll have to toughen back up when the population crashes again.
You are spot on Bowhunter. I saw the same thing happening in the Lower Saluda. Striper fishing was phenomenal in the late 80’s into the 90’s and declined dramatically after that. People were raping the resource and there was no law enforcement presence. I don’t see enforcement increasing any time soon, so the regs need to remain strict.
I am sick of being raped by superfat half inch under the limit stripers when I am crappie fishing. I would be nice to eat one occasionally. My theory on this is the politicians like the income and attention that Lake Murray sees from killing the Striper fishery in Santee Cooper. I know people that make trips to Murray that live on Lake moultrie just to Striper fish and have a shot at keeping some; I have made trips too. I am sure that the Striper guides and the Bait salesman and lakeside cabin places would hate for the Santee Cooper recreational Striper fishing to exist in summer time and early fall again. I think there are more politics at play here than there is concern for a fishery.
2013 Ranger Z21 Intracoastal 250 hp Yamaha VMAX SHO
quote:
Originally posted by rivermanYou are spot on Bowhunter. I saw the same thing happening in the Lower Saluda. Striper fishing was phenomenal in the late 80’s into the 90’s and declined dramatically after that. People were raping the resource and there was no law enforcement presence. I don’t see enforcement increasing any time soon, so the regs need to remain strict.
I am having a hard time following the logic on this one. If what is being discussed is true, then it does not matter to the lawbreakers how stringent the law is. Is the theory that in order to manage the species we let the non lawbreakers keep less so that the lawbreakers can have more?
2013 Ranger Z21 Intracoastal 250 hp Yamaha VMAX SHO
Fishery is still not what it needs to be so laws need to stay in place. Nowhere close to what it used to be.
Sure people can catch fish but it aint nothing like it used to be. I used to be one of the ones that could catch 30 in a trip on the river but not anymore. I release them 99% of the time (especially on the river with all of Carolina Water Systems sewage spills) whether its on the river or on Lake Murray.
quote:
Originally posted by sully1Fishery is still not what it needs to be so laws need to stay in place. Nowhere close to what it used to be.
Sure people can catch fish but it aint nothing like it used to be. I used to be one of the ones that could catch 30 in a trip on the river but not anymore. I release them 99% of the time (especially on the river with all of Carolina Water Systems sewage spills) whether its on the river or on Lake Murray.
Please feel free to explain how the law in its current for will make the fishery “what it used to be”. The regulations are not what they used to be.
It may never return to what it once was if we don’t start thinning the current population of underslot fish. They are incredible in weight and number, but a half inch or less sly of the slot. I do not think this is coincidental. I have observed this for five years. Not once in the last nine years have I caught a legal striper, and this out of hundreds caught. I hardly ever see anyone target stripers on lake moultrie and I know it is for this reason. What good are rules to manage the fishermen of a species when there are none? I will target them very rarely and do so just to have fun with my little boys. The majority of my striper catches are a bi-catch from crappie fishing, which I do year round. I gave up on stripers, the same as everyone else in the area, when rules got stupid.
2013 Ranger Z21 Intracoastal 250 hp Yamaha VMAX SHO
quote:
Originally posted by Big Shrimpinquote:
Originally posted by sully1Fishery is still not what it needs to be so laws need to stay in place. Nowhere close to what it used to be.
Sure people can catch fish but it aint nothing like it used to be. I used to be one of the ones that could catch 30 in a trip on the river but not anymore. I release them 99% of the time (especially on the river with all of Carolina Water Systems sewage spills) whether its on the river or on Lake Murray.
Please feel free to explain how the law in its current for will make the fishery “what it used to be”. The regulations are not what they used to be. </font id=“red”>
It may never return to what it once was if we don’t start thinning the current population of underslot fish. They are incredible in weight and number, but a half inch or less sly of the slot. I do not think this is coincidental. I have observed this for five years. Not once in the last nine years have I caught a legal striper, and this out of hundreds caught. I hardly ever see anyone target stripers on lake moultrie and I know it is for this reason. What good are rules to manage the fishermen of a species when there are none? I will target them very rarely and do so just to have fun with my little boys. The majority of my striper catches are a bi-catch from crappie fishing, which I do year round. I gave up on stripers, the same as everyone else in the area, when rules got stupid.
2013 Ranger Z21 Intracoastal 250 hp Yamaha VMAX SHO
I was gonna stay out of this but gotta throw in a couple comments and then go ba
It can be argued that the old regulations may have been the cause. I have not seen where a member of the scientific community has ever stated definitively what led to the decline or the perception of one. I have seen where many have given lists of possible reasons for a decline; none of which do I disagree. I am on the lake and around enough lake people that I would occasionally hear of a keeper being caught. How many times have I heard of a keeper being caught? Once. Even if you argue that the minute any fish becomes legal it is chunked into a cooler, the management here does not make sense. I do not disagree with making it a trophy fishery. I do not necessarily think that the regs should return to the days of old. I just want the politics to stop. I want to see something done. I have been giving the state government the benefit of the doubt for quite some time. The longer this goes on the more sure I am the the growth of the fish has become stunted. I have seen this before with largemouth bass on a small lake in Mississippi. I also saw it turn around very quickly when the minimum length was changed to a slot that’s lower end was one inch less in length than the previous minimum length and upper end was four inches more. I just think that doing nothing is the worst possible thing to do; especially since this species is probably the apex predator of baitfish. What will the effects be for the other species? (for reference I am from Moncks Corner and did fish for Stripers in the '90’s when the big ones were plentiful)
2013 Ranger Z21 Intracoastal 250 hp Yamaha VMAX SHO
You cannot even begin to argue that the striper shutdown in the Santee Cooper system hasn’t been an economic boom for Murray. On the lower lake, no one sells bait anymore. I think the closest place for herring is blacks on the Canal. The fishing economy that I remember on moultrie in the 80’s and 90’s has dried up; I believe it disappeared with the Striper. One could also argue that the few who remained would like to keep the Striper opportunity limited. Who makes up this Santee Cooper striped bass stakeholders advisory group? I can almost guarantee that if the money is followed the reason for striper regulations will be found. The regulations may have started with good intentions, but I am not so sure anymore.
2013 Ranger Z21 Intracoastal 250 hp Yamaha VMAX SHO
The Striped Bass Stakeholders Group is represented by a wide spectrum of folks including Santee Cooper guides and marina operators. And several DNR biologists I’ve heard say definitively that overfishing as well as other factors like drought have led to the decline of the fishery. They don’t say anything about there being too many under slot fish.
One repeating underlying tone is here the politics. While I wasn’t born in SC, I’ve lived here for more than half of my life and from day one, I’ve seen SC politicians/politics get in the way of sound management of our state’s natural resources and impede the DNR from actually being allowed to do their jobs. The dinosaur “good’ol boy” career politicians living in the state house are a big part of the problem. They play political/personal gain games and put their own agendas and/or their wealthy “good’ol boy” buddies’ agendas before the needs of the resource. Personally, I see that as the first and main obstacle standing in the way of sounds resource management.
God bless the “ignore” function.
quote:
Originally posted by Big ShrimpinIt can be argued that the old regulations may have been the cause. I have not seen where a member of the scientific community has ever stated definitively what led to the decline or the perception of one. I have seen where many have given lists of possible reasons for a decline; none of which do I disagree. I am on the lake and around enough lake people that I would occasionally hear of a keeper being caught. How many times have I heard of a keeper being caught? Once. Even if you argue that the minute any fish becomes legal it is chunked into a cooler, the management here does not make sense. I do not disagree with making it a trophy fishery. I do not necessarily think that the regs should return to the days of old. I just want the politics to stop. I want to see something done. I have been giving the state government the benefit of the doubt for quite some time. The longer this goes on the more sure I am the the growth of the fish has become stunted. I have seen this before with largemouth bass on a small lake in Mississippi. I also saw it turn around very quickly when the minimum length was changed to a slot that’s lower end was one inch less in length than the previous minimum length and upper end was four inches more. I just think that doing nothing is the worst possible thing to do; especially since this species is probably the apex predator of baitfish. What will the effects be for the other species? (for reference I am from Moncks Corner and did fish for Stripers in the '90’s when the big ones were plentiful)
2013 Ranger Z21 Intracoastal 250 hp Yamaha VMAX SHO
There are several reasons why the striper fishery went on the crapper.
- Overfishing. DNR did studies before the regulations were put into effect that showed over 80% of the female
I agree that all of those reasons contributed to the decline. We must also not blind ourselves to the fact that it became the fishery it became with little to no regulation for half of its lifespan. Chew on that little tidbit. Also in '59 an estimated 100,000 anglers caught and kept 220000 lbs of striped bass. How big on average do you suppose those fish were. There hasn’t been near that amount of pressure on the fishery in recent years. With the regulations that have been in place for as long as they have we should have a very large population of larger trophy sized stripers. Where are they disappearing to? I can tell you that there are many extremely large schools of 25.5 in fish that are so fat they almost look deformed that are year round residents on the lower lake.
I just noticed that the state senate kicked the bill back to the house with a provision that limits everyone in the state to 5 stripers 26" or more in length per year across all state waters (if you do not believe me read it for yourself, take special care with the language). This will be done by DNR issue tags. The DNR gets to be in charge of a fee schedule and implementation of this new “trophy system”. What a (**() joke. I am sick of the DNR constantly with their hand in my pocket. I already pay an insane amount of state income tax, property taxes, etc (my annual boat taxes are unbelievable and have actually gone up the last two years). I guess the DNR figured they got away with starting a money grab on the deer hunting so they’ll start doing it with “trophy fish” now. I am seriously considering a move to Florida.
**edited for clarification: The five tags are for trophies only. Any striper anywhere in the state that is over 26". How could you apply this in the summer months on a lake such as Murray with the five and done rule? I am sure they will change this to mean only the fisherman of the Santee River System are required to have tags and are limited to five trophies. I have done quite a bit of searching on the h
I would also like to point out that the striper bill was passed by the house the same week that the bill for the stricter flounder regulations was: Feb 2017. The flounder bill has already cleared the senate, been signed by the governor and become law. Look how fast a change is made when it comes to limiting sportsmen; it never works this way in reverse. It is always drug out, gnashing of teeth, begging for the privilege to be returned or to be less restricted. This time it looks like it is going to come along with another scheme. (This does not mean I necessarily disagree with the flounder restrictions; the point is still valid regardless.)
2013 Ranger Z21 Intracoastal 250 hp Yamaha VMAX SHO
quote:
Originally posted by Big ShrimpinI just noticed that the state senate kicked the bill back to the house with a provision that limits everyone in the state to 5 stripers 26" or more in length per year across all state waters (if you do not believe me read it for yourself, take special care with the language). This will be done by DNR issue tags. The DNR gets to be in charge of a fee schedule and implementation of this new “trophy system”. What a (**() joke.
**edited for clarification: The five tags are for trophies only. Any striper anywhere in the state that is over 26".
2013 Ranger Z21 Intracoastal 250 hp Yamaha VMAX SHO
What’s the Senate & House Bill numbers? If that is in fact true, then every single Striper Club in the state will be up in arms against the legislation …
… it’s my Wife’s fault we HAVE to fish !!!
2005 Sea Pro 2100cc / Yamaha 150hp 4-Stroke