They can’t enforce it. It’s only gonna slow down the honest man who was already doing the right thing. However I can see it dampering the out of state hunters. Which I am all for.
2010 17’ JVX Carolina Skiff 40 Yamaha tiller
2002 14’ Alumacraft 30 Yamaha tiller
Won’t be hard to enforce. Do some surges on some of the bigger clubs and randomly hit up processors around the state and make the fines steep. I don’t see the tags slowing down the “honest” man. We will see. I just hope all the still hunters will step up to the plate and kill a few cull bucks and does rather than letting so many walk waiting for the trophy.
“Why Bruce?”
Most rely on a processor nowadays, that’s where DNR will get them.
On a side note, please give me the reason why a “cull buck” should be taken, and in S.C., what is the scientific definition of a “cull buck”?
quote:
Originally posted by poly ballMost rely on a processor nowadays, that’s where DNR will get them.
On a side note, please give me the reason why a “cull buck” should be taken, and in S.C., what is the scientific definition of a “cull buck”?
If you have to ask about a cull buck you’ll never get it. But I know you know what one is. As for a Scientific definition?, Their actually is a lot of scientific studies on “cull” deer. Unfortunately they are all biased on “Pen” deer raised a food sources not available to wild deer.
Cull bucks are bucks that are deemed genetically inferior in antler quality to other bucks in the area, as well poor body mass. If most of the bucks at 3 1/2 years of age on your property have 8+ points, then 3 1/2 year old bucks with 7 or fewer antler points would probably be considered cull bucks. However, a 2 1/2 year old buck with 7 points may not be considered a cull. Other bucks commonly culled are those with very short or missing brow tines or very short tine-length overall.
Polly, you know and I know a cull varies from club to club and typically, by who is in charge of buck management and harvest. It doesn’t take a scientist to know a 4 year old spike breading back to the herd is not a good thing.
I also guarantee you know at least one person that still hunts their property and refuses to take a deer other than one they consider “Wall” worthy. Not knocking that, and if I’m wrong I know several that do this to make up for any you know that don’t.
“Why Bruce?”
Too many people sitting around watching deer hunting shows, filmed in high fenced areas in Texas, is why I blame this “cull buck " crap. IMO, the"hunters” out there today are clueless when it comes to properly aging a buck. Obvious trauma or injuries to any deer that will result in a decline in health, should be culled.
Let him go so he can grow, my camera studies have proven that.
http://www.wideopenspaces.com/cull-bucks-dont-exist-heres-pics/
https://www.qdma.com/cant-manage-deer-genetics/
You can’t see genetics to start with. Many hunters think various forms of antlers represent genetic traits, but most of the abnormalities we see are injury-related, especially abnormalities that only appear on one side of the rack. As far as antler dimensions such as tine length and mass, the factors of age and nutrition are also on display. I’ve heard hunters claim a buck had “inferior genetics” when in fact it was just a yearling with average antlers for its age. I’ve seen hunters want to “cull” small-antlered bucks in populations where nutrition is low, deer density is high, and the sex ratio is out of balance. In these populations, some bucks are born late (because of the skewed sex ratio) and they survive on below-average nutrition for the rest of their lives, a recipe for underperformance. The last thing you want to do in a population like this is take more bucks out. - See more at: https://www.qdma.com/cant-manage-deer-genetics/#sthash.bv9yFhFN.dpuf
Young bucks breed. Most of the hunters who claim to be improving genetics through harvest choices are doing so to presumably increase the prevalence of high-scoring antlers. They’re looking at a middle-aged deer and deciding he doesn’t have much potential, so they hammer him so he “won’t breed.” Too late. Research shows he probably started breeding as a yearling, shortly after his arrival in the area via dispersal. - See more at: https://www.qdma.com/cant-manage-deer-genetics/#sthash.eRHGxtTa.dpuf
quote:
Originally posted by poly ballToo many people sitting around watching deer hunting shows, filmed in high fenced areas in Texas, is why I blame this “cull buck " crap. IMO, the"hunters” out there today are clueless when it comes to properly aging a buck. Obvious trauma or injuries to any deer that will result in a decline in health, should be culled.
Let him go so he can grow, my camera studies have proven that.
http://www.wideopenspaces.com/cull-bucks-dont-exist-heres-pics/
https://www.qdma.com/cant-manage-deer-genetics/
You can’t see genetics to start with. Many hunters think various forms of antlers represent genetic traits, but most of the abnormalities we see are injury-related, especially abnormalities that only appear on one side of the rack. As far as antler dimensions such as tine length and mass, the factors of age and nutrition are also on display. I’ve heard hunters claim a buck had “inferior genetics” when in fact it was just a yearling with average antlers for its age. I’ve seen hunters want to “cull” small-antlered bucks in populations where nutrition is low, deer density is high, and the sex ratio is out of balance. In these populations, some bucks are born late (because of the skewed sex ratio) and they survive on below-average nutrition for the rest of their lives, a recipe for underperformance. The last thing you want to do in a population like this is take more bucks out. - See more at: https://www.qdma.com/cant-manage-deer-genetics/#sthash.bv9yFhFN.dpuf
and you prove my statement flawlessly. Every property manager has their own opinion. Also there is a huge difference with Pen kept deer and our wild herd as you know.
I do agree totally with you that most “hunters” are clueless, but also there are a lot left that know more than you and I ever will.
I can supply links that totally disagree with the two you just posted. It’s all opinion by varying mindsets and also varying Locations.
Ok,post em up.
Fred-Am I wrong in believing dep tags are only to used for does?
Fred-Am I wrong in believing dep tags are only to be used for does?
If dnr finds that deer are causing a landowner damage from overpopulation and gives you permits you can be selective or take what you can.
“Why Bruce?”
quote:
Originally posted by poly ballI can supply links that totally disagree with the two you just posted. It’s all opinion by varying mindsets and also varying Locations.
Ok,post em up.
Let’s start with understanding Culling and actually what is the argument here?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culling
If you age two deer in the 3-4 year mark and one is in the guessable 140lb range with a small rack and the other is a decent 8 point in the 170-190lb range which would you shoot? I’d probably shoot nether and wait on a fat doe, but if I was on a club practicing QDM I’d shoot the small buck and save the larger for someone that wanted a wall hanger. I prefer the meat of a doe.
“Why Bruce?”
X 2 on the doe! much better eating.
quote:You still haven't told me what makes up a "cull buck", a term you throw around here quite frequently.
Originally posted by Fred67quote:
Originally posted by poly ballI can supply links that totally disagree with the two you just posted. It’s all opinion by varying mindsets and also varying Locations.
Ok,post em up.
Let’s start with understanding Culling and actually what is the argument here?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culling
If you age two deer in the 3-4 year mark and one is in the guessable 140lb range with a small rack and the other is a decent 8 point in the 170-190lb range which would you shoot? I’d probably shoot nether and wait on a fat doe, but if I was on a club practicing QDM I’d shoot the small buck and save the larger for someone that wanted a wall hanger. I prefer the meat of a doe.
“Why Bruce?”
For your love of dog driving, how do doggers determine a “cull buck”?
In the links I posted earlier , it states you cant see genetics in deer, the only way is to completely “pen” the deer. You’re assuming too much Fred, or you’ve been misled on this “culling”.
Hunters of free-ranging whitetails cannot manage genetics through selective harvest and produce measurable genetic change. Period. Since we can’t control breeding in free-ranging deer, we can’t shape genetics. But put the deer in a pen and explicitly control who breeds who for several generations and, yes, results will be measurable, and they can be quite amazing. Because of this fact, many hunters assume the same can be done in the wild. - See more at: https://www.qdma.com/cant-
quote:I have stated many times what I think a cull buck is no need to argue that with you. For example not a one sided spike as you and I know the major reason for that is injury. But a 4 year old two sided spike weighing in at a staggering
Originally posted by poly ballquote:You still haven't told me what makes up a "cull buck", a term you throw around here quite frequently.
Originally posted by Fred67quote:
Originally posted by poly ballI can supply links that totally disagree with the two you just posted. It’s all opinion by varying mindsets and also varying Locations.
Ok,post em up.
Let’s start with understanding Culling and actually what is the argument here?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culling
If you age two deer in the 3-4 year mark and one is in the guessable 140lb range with a small rack and the other is a decent 8 point in the 170-190lb range which would you shoot? I’d probably shoot nether and wait on a fat doe, but if I was on a club practicing QDM I’d shoot the small buck and save the larger for someone that wanted a wall hanger. I prefer the meat of a doe.
“Why Bruce?”
For your love of dog driving, how do doggers determine a “cull buck”?
In the links I posted earlier , it states you cant see genetics in deer, the only way is to completely “pen” the deer. You’re assuming too much Fred, or you’ve been misled on this “culling”.
I never said which way is better or not, only wanted your explanation of a “cull buck”, as you are always throwing the term around. Better get busy and start screening those bucks…
If you’re going to shape deer genetics in the wild, part of maintaining control over the genetics is ensuring that every individual buck out there passes through your selective screening process, whatever your criteria might be. I’ve already shown that a lot of breeding takes place before bucks are old enough for you to accurately judge their antler potential, and before you can even legally shoot them each season. Once the season comes in, even if you have help from hunting partners, plenty of bucks that are breeding won’t be seen by you during legal hunting hours and seasons. After all, you have to make an appearance at work and stop by to visit your family every now and then. - See more at: https://www.qdma.com/cant-manage-deer-genetics/#sthash.huU0tEnp.DtpKyPFZ.dpuf
quote:
Originally posted by poly ballI never said which way is better or not, only wanted your explanation of a “cull buck”, as you are always throwing the term around. Better get busy and start screening those bucks…
If you’re going to shape deer genetics in the wild, part of maintaining control over the genetics is ensuring that every individual buck out there passes through your selective screening process, whatever your criteria might be. I’ve already shown that a lot of breeding takes place before bucks are old enough for you to accurately judge their antler potential, and before you can even legally shoot them each season. Once the season comes in, even if you have help from hunting partners, plenty of bucks that are breeding won’t be seen by you during legal hunting hours and seasons.</font id=“red”> After all, you have to make an appearance at work and stop by to visit your family every now and then. - See more at: https://www.qdma.com/cant-manage-deer-genetics/#sthash.huU0tEnp.DtpKyPFZ.dpuf
so do you believe in a “cull Buck”? and if you do what is your description of one. I can throw that term around quit a bit and give many descriptions. But honestly I don’t care much any more. I like to see my wife and grandkids happy as anything watching them, but I loath what they do to plants on my property. So I have to put up with deer, that said if I shoot one I’m not going for a trophy rack… I’ll take the culls and some fat nannys.
What strikes me funny in your post is taking deer during legal times on a nocturnal animal.
Gotta have dogs to do that sir! Even you have to bow down and admit that still hunters can not fill the niche that dog hunters provide in culling our over populated deer population. All those woods goats that bury themsel
Any obvious sign of trauma, or injury to any deer will be taken out, that was stated in my post on the 17th.I take the number of does as recommended by my regional DNR biologist, that number comes from yearly harvest reports, spotlight and camera surveys.
And I find this comment from you extremely comical,as dog hunting has seriously declined, as well as the overall deer population in SC. See SCDNR deer density reports below.
What strikes me funny in your post is taking deer during legal times on a nocturnal animal.
Gotta have dogs to do that sir! Even you have to bow down and admit that still hunters can not fill the niche that dog hunters provide in culling our over populated deer population. All those woods goats that bury themselves deep in the swamp to sleep the day away, some good old hounds will force them front and center.
“Why Bruce?”
From SCDNR Deer Harvest…
During the 2016 deer season it is estimated that a total of 99,678 bucks and 72,637 does were harvested for a statewide total of 172,315 deer (Table 1). The overall harvest represents an 11 percent decrease in harvest from 2015 (195,030) and is 46 percent below the record harvest established in 2002 (319,902). After many years of rapidly increasing during the 1970’s and 1980’s, the deer population in South Carolina exhibited relative stability between 1995 and 2002. Since 2002, however, the population has trended down. The overall reduction in harvest seen since 2002 can likely be attributable to a number of factors, including habitat change. Although timber management activities stimulated significant growth in South Carolina’s deer population in the 1970’s and 1980’s, considerable acreage is currently in even-aged stands that are greater than 15 years old. According to forest inventory data, during the last 20 years the states’ timberlands in the 0 to 15 year age class decreased 34 percent while timberlands in the 16 to 30 year age class increased 104 percent. This situation simply does not support dee
quote:
Originally posted by poly ballAnd I find this comment from you extremely comical,as dog hunting has seriously declined, as well as the overall deer population in SC. See SCDNR deer density reports below.
Not comical at all, actually pretty serious. Coyotes Polly. After 10 days or so most coyotes won’t catch a fawn, but during that small time frame they are slaughtering them. A big issue is our deer have fawns pretty much all year round instead of mass herd birth like in Northern states. Coyotes get some but not all, our deer can’t take the stress of coyotes. Up North they get a belly full and the rest grow up, here they get a belly full then get another belly full then another…
Even though DNR shows decline, they also show areas of overpopulation.
I think you and I would agree on a lot of these issues in a casual face to face discussion. We would just have to agree to never bring up religion or politics.
“Why Bruce?”
quote:Ok, that's a good enough explanation of what a "cull buck" is, and seeing nearly a 100,000 of them killed last year, y'all go gun down some more.
Originally posted by Fred67quote:
Originally posted by poly ballAnd I find this comment from you extremely comical,as dog hunting has seriously declined, as well as the overall deer population in SC. See SCDNR deer density reports below.
Not comical at all, actually pretty serious. Coyotes Polly. After 10 days or so most coyotes won’t catch a fawn, but during that small time frame they are slaughtering them. A big issue is our deer have fawns pretty much all year round instead of mass herd birth like in Northern states. Coyotes get some but not all, our deer can’t take the stress of coyotes. Up North they get a belly full and the rest grow up, here they get a belly full then get another belly full then another…
Even though DNR shows decline, they also show areas of overpopulation.
I think you and I would agree on a lot of these issues in a casual face to face discussion. We would just have to agree to never bring up religion or politics.
“Why Bruce?”
Remember, you’re limited now, so make it count.