The Invisible War

I started a topic titled “Iran” in the Politics section. It wound up being a discussion of the spiritual battle between good and evil that we all face.

One of the passages from the Bible that I quoted was Paul’s admission of his struggles with sin in Romans 7:14-25. I am a Christian who struggles with sin because I am human, but I don’t give in to it. I fight against it. There is an “Invisible War” going on for my soul, and I am a soldier in that battle.

I’m interested in any ideas others have on this topic.

What page count is the Over/Under set at?

RBF

My name is RBF, and I am a recovering major thread hijacker.

What is an Over/Under page count?

spec

1980 Skandia 21 w/ '93 JohnRude 150 gas drinker

BTW, there are 3 books and a movie listed on Amazon.com with the title “Invisible War”. The movie is on another topic. The book I have read (a long time ago) is by Dr. Barnhouse. The other 2 books are by Chip Ingram and Rick Warren. If I remember correctly, the Barnhouse book is a difficult read. The Ingram and Warren books should be interesting to anyone who has been wounded in battle in the “Invisible War”.

spec

1980 Skandia 21 w/ '93 JohnRude 150 gas drinker

quote:
Originally posted by spec

What is an Over/Under page count?

spec

1980 Skandia 21 w/ '93 JohnRude 150 gas drinker


Have you read any of the End Times Thread (ETT) or ETT sequel which is still available on the second page of this forum?

The over/under page count is when someone declares a page count, and others bet on whether it will go over/under when it is all done. Unfortunately there are cheaters who drive the thread count up to win the over, but that is another topic…

These types of topics typically go on, and on, and on. Have fun and enjoy, MD will be joining shortly, and tell you how to live your life. Observation only, and based on a significant history of, well, I won’t go there…

RBF

My name is RBF, and I am a recovering major thread hijacker.

I stayed away from the end times discussions. I will probably get hammered, but I think God has not yet revealed all of the end times to us. He has given us what we need to know at this point. The rest, God has decided to reveal at the appropriate time. I think those who claim to have a perfect understanding of the end times - don’t. Now I will duck and seek cover!

spec

1980 Skandia 21 w/ '93 JohnRude 150 gas drinker

quote:
Originally posted by spec

I stayed away from the end times discussions. I will probably get hammered, but I think God has not yet revealed all of the end times to us. He has given us what we need to know at this point. The rest, God has decided to reveal at the appropriate time. I think those who claim to have a perfect understanding of the end times - don’t. Now I will duck and seek cover!

spec

1980 Skandia 21 w/ '93 JohnRude 150 gas drinker


I like your way of thinking.

No one really knows when it will happen, and to trying to predict is a fool?s errand. Plain and simple. It is no different than anything in life, once someone becomes hyper-attentive to a notion, then they tend to read into things too deeply and jump to conclusions based on their biased thinking.

Just because the dots may be aligning now, does not mean they will be aligned 100 years from now. It is presumptuous to believe once they begin to align, they can not change later. It is human nature to look and say look it is happening now, but then it does not. This is due to the alignment changed, but the thought process did not. Some folks are predisposed to think the worst is happening, and they tend to draw false conclusions based on their bias. Makes sense, since the end times have been forecasted over, and over, and over. Eventually, someone will get it right, but that will be due to timing vs. the thought process. The thought process will always remain constant, and biased.

RBF

My name is RBF, and I am a recovering major thread hijacker.

Yes, those end times discussions wind up being like a dog chasing his tail. He expends a lot of energy, but does not accomplish much! I’d rather talk about spiritual life issues in the here and now, where God have given us a lot of concrete advice for living in His will. I’ll leave the future to God.

spec

1980 Skandia 21 w/ '93 JohnRude 150 gas drinker

Well, spec, I have been accused of arguing with myself, with only a few posts, but your thread so far has you and RBF only, I hope it gets better.

First, to comment on your subject-- The invisible war is only interesting to those who are In the battle, mostly. I believe average unbelievers have no battle, AND many, if not most, Christians don’t have a battle, because they have a “seared conscience” as the word says. The word also says some have been turned over to a “reprobate mind” by God, not satan.

To have a battle, you must first have a conviction, you may be assuming too much from this “freakin’ fishing website”, as RBF calls it, not me.

If you judge the posters on this forum to be Christians, when they use whatever language and culture thoughts they like, then you have more faith in humans than I do. I would suggest you look at the verse “you will know them by their fruits”. Matt. 7:16, and be careful saying who is CHRISTIAN. That comment will get your thread into the subject of judging, no doubt. At least you will get some “count” out of it.

This thread is headed toward end time if you don’t stop it. I am going to continue that thread soon, so you can divert those posters over there.

As Reference your comments on the end time discussion, you are taking the extreme opinion like others on here. That opinion is “anyone who thinks they have the end time PERFECTLY figured out, does not”.

I have never heard ONE PERSON say that, nor do I believe anyone else has ever heard anyone say that.

However, to ignore that subject is to disobey the teaching of Jesus, when He said “let no MAN deceive you” concerning the end time prophecies, and “Watch, for you know not what hour your Lord shall come”. Also, He told the Pharisees, “you can discern the seasons, but you cannot discern the times”.

If your reply is the usual, “I am looking for His coming”, then looking goes beyond just being ready in your walk, it also means not being deceived by the Antichrist, or false teachers.

Jesus said

Reference the verse, “except those days be shortened”, Jesus said that, NOT mac daddy, but, who is teaching those days WILL BE SHORTENED, anyone you know of, period???

“The big one’s still swimming, let’s go.”

spec, I wish Paul was here to ask him. But, I would think he is talking about inherent emotions. For instance, pride, lust, self-centeredness, etc. These are things that we can “accidentally” do because they are ingrained into our flesh. It doesn’t mean we give into them. The second we find our selves committing the sin, we should make an honest effort to control it. Not just say, “Oh well… I guess I am just a lustful person and there is nothing I can do about it. Good thing I am saved!” Jesus said something about ripping out your eye or cutting off your hand to keep you out of hell. I don’t know that he literally meant you should gouge your eyes out, but obviously he is saying that you should take a matter of sin very seriously… And those are just the inherent sins. What about willingly committing sin? Like when you are planning on getting smashed with the guys and go to a strip club, knowing well in your mind that you should not. Do you just say, “Ah man, Jesus would understand.” Or, do you pick up your cross and walk the other way? I don’t know the answers, but I don’t want to have to rip my eye out!

We know that salvation is not “works based” meaning, I can’t just tell myself, “Well, it’s only 1 night, and I’ll be a good boy the rest of the year to make up for it”. That sounds like a trap to me. Sure, we sin, but there is sin that we are willing to commit and sin that we are infused with.

My fear? What happens if you fall so far away from God that you can’t get back? What happens if you are living in a period of rebellion, showing no fruits of the Holy Spirit, when the timer runs out? People will say, “once saved, always saved”, but they will instantly follow up with “But, maybe you weren’t saved to begin with”. Something to think about.

Anyway, God made MANY examples out of the Israelites for being “disobedient”. Sure, God loves us, but he HATES sin and WILL punish for it.

Mac, thanks for your understanding on the “invisible war”. I try not to judge others. I don’t have the intellect to debate the end times with you. I’m just a big ol’ dummy. But I understand the basics of the Bible. I think God provided for dummies like me when he sent His Son to pay for my sins.

Skinneej, I think you are being too hard on yourself. If you are saved, then I don’t think you can fall so far away from God that you can’t get back. The only unpardonable sin, is the sin of unbelief. We make mistakes. God knows that will happen. Satan is very skillful at his job, and we often fall into his traps. But, God is a God of second, 3rd, 4th, …chances.

Look at Biblical characters, and you see, not a bunch of perfect people, but some very imperfect people who make some horrible mistakes. God still loves them, and God is always ready to welcome back an Adam, the “Prodigal Son”, David after Bathsheba, Moses after becoming a murderer, Peter after the denial, etc., etc.

I see many examples of fine Christians in my daily life. Yet, they are not perfect. I see many examples of Christians making bad mistakes, but they come back to God because they know God offers them forgiveness. The Christian life is about perseverence in the battle against evil, not about winning the war on this side. If that were true, Heaven would be a lonely place

spec

1980 Skandia 21 w/ '93 JohnRude 150 gas drinker

spec, for sure. Nobody is perfect. I think it’s a matter of heart that is required. David was considered a “man after God’s own heart”. This guy wrote hundreds of psalms, exercise times of extreme faith, had his faith tested, and generally never left God. Sure, he slipped into a trench, but God punished him by killing his son (pretty severe). But, I don’t remember that he generally lived in sin. He got off the path, and was off track for months physically wasting away. He begged and pleaded with God for mercy. That is some serious repentance… Seems a lot different than saying, “Hey God, can you forgive me of the strip club last night?” David was described as a man that “LOVED the laws of God”, and chased after God. Other than the adultery, that seems to be a good model to follow.

As far as today, we may not get a second chance. What if you get to the throne of judgment and God says, “How can you call yourself one of my sons? You couldn’t even give up X,Y,Z when I died on the cross for you and drank the wrath of the father.” Who will be your lawyer when Jesus says this? Will we get a mulligan? I only hope so. He also says things like “sexually immoral, and drunkards will NOT enter the kingdom of heaven”… What does that mean? What is a drunkard? Drunkard by my standards or by Holy standards? And how can I NOT enter Heaven if I am saved???

Basically, my point is, hell is eternal. I know that some believe that “eternal” means “temporal” or a period of time, but either way, I don’t want to go there. So, why take chances? Why speculate on what I can get away with? Is there any decision more important? Not a risk I can take… Why not “run the race as if to win it instead of boxing in the air” as Paul says? Why not “work out my salvation with fear and trembling” as Paul advises?

What if I am right? What if we should “deny ourselves” and take sin very seriously, but are not? Sure, I miss out on worldly pleasures from now on, but I’m playing for the end game.

Also, remember the Israelites atoned for their sins all the time, but God still punished them pretty harshly. He said that their “lips were near Him, but their hearts were far away”. If you live in sin long enough, your heart WILL harden to God. There is a reason why they say sin SEPARATES us from God. As mac daddy said we were created for the primary purpose of worshiping God. If that is not our primary activity, then something seems out of whack.

Good discussion, guys. When I started ministry 40 + years ago, I studied these subjects, and have heard thousands of teachings on them, plus taught and shared them quite consistently, as you can imagine.

I doubt there is much about salvation I haven’t heard, or seen in action. That being said, main secret I have learned is read and study the word properly, for correct interpretation, best we can, anyway.

This means, take ALL verses pertaining to a subject, and compare them, check the Hebrew and Greek definitions, and the different interpretations your spirit comes with, compared to your MIND!!!###

In other words “meditate” on the word, chew it awhile, pray over it, sometimes days. You will find God WILL give revelations of His word to those who DILLIGENTLY seek the truth.

The “once saved, always saved” teaching is one I worked on for years, off and on. I am a former Baptist, so that was ingrained in me from youth.

There are many, many scriptures on that subject, my favorite is on the LAST page of the Bible, so that, to me, is very important.

Revelation 22:19-- A man’s name can be REMOVED from the Lamb’s book of life is plenty clear for me. Plus, Skinneej’s verse about “working out my own salvation”, plus Revelation 12:8-10?, after satan is cast down to earth, the angels declare, “now has come salvation”.

On the issue of sin from Paul in Romans 7, Skinneej right again, he is talking about “inherent” sin, OLD MAN, still around, Paul was a man who was VERY wicked, compared to most men, so his flesh control was harder, and God knows us, so He would not take away the ‘special’ irritating sin from Paul. That, I believe, was his big flesh problem that he NEVER got rid of.

For the plucking out the eye, the “sermon on the mount” was all spiritual lessons, that were somewhat exaggerated for emphasis.

I DO believe He intended some people to take those literally, as stated, in Heaven or hell situations(life and death).

As to the unpardonable sin, Luke 12:10-11-- Is NOT unbelief, verse 11

FYI - The end times are interesting, but your personal end time might come much sooner. You could get in a car wreck tomorrow.

VERY GOOD POINT, Skinneej, I am concentrated so much on the Lord’s day, time of the end, that I forget the urgency of today!!!###

Good insight, my brother, thank you for your participation in this miraculous discussion of our souls.

The very reason Jesus said to pray DAILY, forgive us of our sins, Father.

“The big one’s still swimming, let’s go.”

Got my 15 month old, wide open grandson for an overnight. Too busy chasing him around the house to talk now. But, please don’t get the idea I take sin lightly. I am just talking about the inevitable mistakes that humans make, even humans who are diligently trying to avoid evil. Jesus paid for those.

spec

1980 Skandia 21 w/ '93 JohnRude 150 gas drinker

For sure spec. You seem to have the right approach from what I can tell. I’ve got a 16 month old and she is into everything! Actually on vacation right now so my participation might be limited this week. Going to see some of God’s creation in Montana! Yellowstone tomorrow!

Spec, one thing to watch for. Saying Jesus paid for the sins in some people’s teaching, means He paid for sins PAST, PRESENT, AND FUTURE.

He ONLY paid for sins repented for, not automatic forgiveness.

“The big one’s still swimming, let’s go.”