went out with capt’n Jason. It was a Great day. stopped on the way out picked up a few black sea bass. key word is (few) then we stopped at 3 more spots and nothing, nada. continued out around 11 Capt’n Jason finally put us on fish. quick limit of vermillion snapper (good size). yellow tail snapper(I think), porgies, bonita, trigger,sharks, reef donkeys and typical bottom dwellers I caught a nice american red snapper that was 1/4 inch too short. A 14 lb american red snapper won the bottom fish pool. After I limmited out on vermillion, had a few black sea bass and some other snappers.I baited up for big fish.I made my rigs out of new Ande 80lb leader. threaded the mono loop through and over the Owner long shank hooks. I hooked up to 3 LARGE fish and fought them half way to the boat only to have the 80lb pop at the hook. I was suprised at this.Has anybody experienced this?Time to change rigs. any suggestions? Thanks Capt’n Jason and crew
Sounds like you had a good fishing trip. I’d say that sharks are poping your line. If not then tie a different knot or wet the one that your tying so it tightens up smoothly.
I use the same rig and sometimes the loop of the line gets caught in the pinch of the hook eye and cuts the line. Need to use a more friendly hook eye for that application
I don’t think it was sharks Hooked Up, ya know that sounds like what is happening. I never thought about the the end of the hook eye. I will make an adjustment.
Thanks for that bit of info.
Good day. Just out of curiosity, why did you identify the red snapper as american?
quote:Why don't you think that it was sharks? It's incredibly common for sharks to bite your hook off.
Originally posted by rhynosorI don’t think it was sharks Hooked Up, ya know that sounds like what is happening. I never thought about the the end of the hook eye. I will make an adjustment.
Thanks for that bit of info.
quote:
Originally posted by Hooked UpI use the same rig and sometimes the loop of the line gets caught in the pinch of the hook eye and cuts the line. Need to use a more friendly hook eye for that application
I agree. I snell hooks for certain bottom rigs (which means the pressure is being put on the line right there inside the hook eye), and with certain kinds of line or certain brands of hooks, I almost always will have the leader snap right at the hook eye… it doesn’t even have to be a large fish…
Try the Owner and Gamakatsu brands… or look for a welded eye on hooks for your big fish rigs. Some of the more expensive mustads and other brands are okay, but I have a lot of confidence in owner or gamakatsu hooks for grouper rigs. Like hooked up said, some hooks have a little too sharp an edge on the end where the hook was bent around on itself to make the eye.
I think you get what you pay for with hooks. Sometimes the little differences aren’t a big deal, but sometimes they are.
Luke 8:22-25
skinneej, the line was stretched and broken exactly where the hook eye was, not a clean cut. Also how the fish fought. it had some weight to it and was pulling strait back down to the bottom, not a bunch of eratic movement.
quote:
Originally posted by rhynosorskinneej, the line was stretched and broken exactly where the hook eye was, not a clean cut. Also how the fish fought. it had some weight to it and was pulling strait back down to the bottom, not a bunch of eratic movement.
Sounds like a 10-20# atlantic scampnose shark to me…
j/k
I have had the same thing happen to me many many times before I realized that the hooks I was using was the problem. Momoi diamond seems to get cut more easily by the hook eye than lines like Ande and Berkley BG also. Those are some more of my observations…
Luke 8:22-25
I just don’t see how it is forensically possible to tell if the hook cut your knot or a shark as you are talking about a jagged edge cutting the line either way. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that sharks cut lines just about every single day. Often I see it happen right next to the boat even the same day you were fishing. Also, I’ve heard many people (including myself) proclaim “GROUPER BABY!!!” or “RED SNAPPER BABY!!!” all the way up to the boat only to get laughed at as they are taking a sharpnose off the hook. I also find that sharks don’t seem to fight the same way every time. Sometimes they fight you half way up. Sometimes they fight you all the way to the top and sometimes they give up after the first 15 seconds. But then again I’ve also personally seen grouper break leader and nice red snapper break leaders because they have sharp teeth too. I’ve also personally verified these species because we went down and shot the perpetrators with a spear gun shortly afterwards and got the hooks and weights back out of their mouths. The interesting thing is that the knot is still on the hook with about an inch or two of line which means it didn’t break at the knot, but got bit off.
Anyway, I am not doubting that it may have been something other than a shark, but I just don’t think you can rule them out totally as they are way to common the instigators in such an event.
I am quoting this straight from phin’s phorensics phor phisherman, vol. 301, p. 45
Investigating cause of line break when bottom fishing
shark tooth[teeth]
-Fish bit like an edible species would have, but then started slowly veering up current. Line will remain straight with a jagged cut at the end and no abrasion to leader/line
gagged, a.k.a. not enough drag or shimano anti-reverse failure
-Fish bit aggressively, but by the time you got the line tight you only felt bottom and then nothing. Line will appear damaged as if someone had rubbed it across a cheese grater.
knot failure
-Fish was up off the bottom, and you were not horsing it. However, you still brought up no hook and no fish. End of line will have slight pig tail or curl in it. This can be distinguished from the shark’s cut by the curl in the end of the line with the knot failure.
hook pinching the knot
-This is likely to occur with larger diameter monofilament lines that are put through the hook eye twice when attaching the hook to the leader. There will be less curl in the line- only a slight bend where the line popped as it was pinched between the hook shank and the jagged end of the hook where it bends back around to the shank to form the eye.
Luke 8:22-25
quote:And you know this because you were underwater with a mask and a snorkel watching or you are just ***assuming*** things based on how you think the evidence ***should be*** interpreted?
Originally posted by PhinI am quoting this straight from phin’s phorensics phor phisherman, vol. 301, p. 45
Investigating cause of line break when bottom fishing
shark tooth[teeth]
-Fish bit like an edible species would have, but then started slowly veering up current. Line will remain straight with a jagged cut at the end and no abrasion to leader/line
gagged, a.k.a. not enough drag or shimano anti-reverse failure
-Fish bit aggressively, but by the time you got the line tight you only felt bottom and then nothing. Line will appear damaged as if someone had rubbed it across a cheese grater.
knot failure
-Fish was up off the bottom, and you were not horsing it. However, you still brought up no hook and no fish. End of line will have slight pig tail or curl in it. This can be distinguished from the shark’s cut by the curl in the end of the line with the knot failure.
hook pinching the knot
-This is likely to occur with larger diameter monofilament lines that are put through the hook eye twice when attaching the hook to the leader. There will be less curl in the line- only a slight bend where the line popped as it was pinched between the hook shank and the jagged end of the hook where it bends back around to the shank to form the eye.Luke 8:22-25
You seriously have never had a shark chaffe your line? Do me a favor next time you are out there:
- Place shark on gunnel and have a buddy hold it down…
- Drop pants and sit on shark, while bare assed and sharks body is firmly between ass cheeks…
- Have buddy yank shark out by the tail so that scales
Shark chaff is different from a clean break from a knot failure or line popping because of pinching inside the eye of the hook, Sir.
And just because you scuba dive a lot during SKA season does not make you a superceeding authority on bottom fishing rigs. You have some credibility.
However
comma
when you tell me there’s no way in skinEsWorld.com that I can tell what species I’m seeing on my color sonar, you lose a little credibility in a bottom fishing discussion.
Luke 8:22-25
quote:All I am saying is that I have been able to test my hypothesis before. You have not been able to do that and continue to make assumptions...
Originally posted by PhinShark chaff is different from a clean break from a knot failure or line popping because of pinching inside the eye of the hook, Sir.
And just because you scuba dive a lot during SKA season does not make you a superceeding authority on bottom fishing rigs. You have some credibility.
However
commawhen you tell me there’s no way in skinEsWorld.com that I can tell what species I’m seeing on my color sonar, you lose a little credibility in a bottom fishing discussion.
Also, if you want to take up a monetary style bet on reading color sonar, I am willing to put up some of my money against some of that extra student loan money you have. It’s pretty easy. You tell me what percentage of each species are down there and then we will dive down and video tape. And I am not talking about vermillion. I want you to point out the number of grouper, snapper, red porgies, etc on the sonar.
Also, I want to be sure you can identify a school of spades from a school of amberjacks from a school of rudderfish from a school of cigrar minnows from a school of triggers. This is going to be fun.
quote:
Originally posted by skinneejAlso, I want to be sure you can identify a school of spades from a school of amberjacks from a school of rudderfish from a school of cigrar minnows from a school of triggers. This is going to be fun.
Your transducer sucks if you can’t tell the difference between cigars, small grunts or b liners and triggers. Triggers worth fooling with will show your more solid colors (like yellow) while the smaller and softer fish will rarely even show red; they usually show as black. Amberjacks and rudderfish are usually in much larger schools than other fish we’ll encounter, and they’re tighter than big snapper. And spades aren’t usually something I’m worried about because I’m not fooling with wrecks and treasure…
Try and take your sonar off automatic, and maybe you’ll start to learn some of this yourself.
Luke 8:22-25
quote:Well Phin, for a guy who has verified all of these hypothesis from merely hook and line in one season of fishing in SC, you sure do have it all figured out.
Originally posted by Phinquote:
Originally posted by skinneejAlso, I want to be sure you can identify a school of spades from a school of amberjacks from a school of rudderfish from a school of cigrar minnows from a school of triggers. This is going to be fun.
Your transducer sucks if you can’t tell the difference between cigars, small grunts or b liners and triggers. Triggers worth fooling with will show your more solid colors (like yellow) while the smaller and softer fish will rarely even show red; they usually show as black. Amberjacks and rudderfish are usually in much larger schools than other fish we’ll encounter, and they’re tighter than big snapper. And spades aren’t usually something I’m worried about because I’m not fooling with wrecks and treasure…
Try and take your sonar off automatic, and maybe you’ll start to learn some of this yourself.
Luke 8:22-25
And if you haven’t seen spadefish during your bottom fishing ventures, then it proves you don’t know what’s down there. There is a school on every piece of live bottom out there.
7cs, Thats what I was told it was by the mate John. I think he was a wrestler in school you guys may know him. That’s the only way I identified it.He may have been wrong. skinneej and phin, it’s true I could not tell what it was that was breaking me off. I have caught a lot of sharks been bit off by sharks(spinners,black tip,lemmon,bull ect…) many times when I Lived in Stuart, Florida. While i’m not a 30 year veteran of saltwater fishing. I have been saltwater fishing for 10 years or so.And I swear it looks like the mono broke at the point of hook attachment.We will never know, but it’s my fishing story and in my story I would like to think it was a big a@@ grouper.Fair enough?
quote:
Originally posted by rhynosorWe will never know, but it’s my fishing story and in my story I would like to think it was a big a@@ grouper.Fair enough?
Hell, why not make it a wahoo?
In all seriousness, how crowded was the boat? Thanks.
quote:
Originally posted by skinneejquote:Well Phin, for a guy who has verified all of these hypothesis from merely hook and line in one season of fishing in SC, you sure do have it all figured out.
Originally posted by Phinquote:
Originally posted by skinneejAlso, I want to be sure you can identify a school of spades from a school of amberjacks from a school of rudderfish from a school of cigrar minnows from a school of triggers. This is going to be fun.
Your transducer sucks if you can’t tell the difference between cigars, small grunts or b liners and triggers. Triggers worth fooling with will show your more solid colors (like yellow) while the smaller and softer fish will rarely even show red; they usually show as black. Amberjacks and rudderfish are usually in much larger schools than other fish we’ll encounter, and they’re tighter than big snapper. And spades aren’t usually something I’m worried about because I’m not fooling with wrecks and treasure…
Try and take your sonar off automatic, and maybe you’ll start to learn some of this yourself.
Luke 8:22-25
And if you haven’t seen spadefish during your bottom fishing ventures, then it proves you don’t know what’s down there. There is a school on every piece of live bottom out there.
I did not say I had not seen spadefish. Spadefish are fun on zebcos, and I regretfully do not always have zebcos on the bote.
And I’m