Triggerfish will become illegal for commercial fishermen to sell one week after beeliners open up. These two fish live together in many places. Thousands of triggerfish will be discarded as a result of this gross mismanagement of our quotas.
The simple solution to fix this before next year is to split the trigger quota into two six month seasons opening at the same time as Vermilion Snapper. Set the commercial possession limit at 500 pounds until 75% of a seasonal quota has been landed and reduce it to 200 pounds for the final 25%. All of our quotas should be managed with appropriate possession limits and By-catch Allowances that avoid total closures so we can target fish with high limits while still keeping most of what we accidentally catch. This would go a long way toward reducing the MILLION+ pounds of Regulatory Discards that are being deducted from our quotas annually.
Freefish,
You make great sense. How is it that our officials are so %$#& up that they cannot even figure this out! They do this for a living!
AND THESE MORONS ACTUALLY THINK THEY ARE MANAGING THE SITUATION!
Sea Hunt BX22 Br
WS Tarpon 140
Yet there are several flawed assumptions here jczc. No offense meant to you, by the way. But they aren’t morons. They know exactly what they are doing. Keep the populations imbalanced in ways that keep at least a few commercially important species in constant peril, thus ensuring their job security. Also goes to help, just a little bit more, the destruction of the small business, which is far more difficult to nationalize and regulate, than the big company cash cows.
“Sire, it belongs in truth to the Church of God, in whose name I speak, to endure blows and not to inflict them. But it will also please your Majesty to remember that she is an anvil that has worn out many hammers.”…Theodore Beza
Can you say “manufactured crisis”…
It seems as if the only two options at this point are gross incompetence or malicious intent to mismanage our fisheries to advance other agendas like catch shares and area closures. A third option could be a combination of both fostered by the inherent “evils of bureaucracy”. Either way, it is time for us to take control of our fisheries by saying who we want to represent us on the councils and lead as NMFS and NOAA administrators while offering our own management plans. I am sick of being given 3 or 4 bad options to pick from during the comment periods and having no say in who is representing us.
There is no good reason to close triggers period. Their not over fished and re-populate at an early age and are caught from 30’ to 600’ ( that’s a lot of bottom!) From VA to Argentina and along the West African coast. Once on an atlantic crossing many years ago we found a sailboat wreck upside down mid atlantic. Had hundreds of oceanic triggers around it. We caught enough for supper for 127 crew. The data is BS. The ocean is a big place. Just another example of SAFMC using wild guesses to justify closures. Makes one wonder - if all these regs are so wonderful, Why do we need more MPA’s?
There are a few on the council that have a vision of regulation through large MPA’s. When I say “large”, I mean that they want to close off enough % of the entire fishing area in order to “protect” a significant amount of spawning fish. The vision is that if they can close off say, 70% of the available fishing grounds, it doesn’t really matter what people do in the other 30% because most fish are “protected”. So, it’s not restriction through limits. It’s restricting access to the fish.
They know that nobody would accept this new paradigm of management, so they need to find a way to slide it in there without anyone fully understanding what is happening. They are actually pretty clever, because they are using manipulation of the crowd to do the bidding.
One attempt was the red snapper shutdown. Remember they wanted to close off 80% of our fishing grounds from Myrtle to Florida because the “bycatch” would have wiped out red snapper if we didn’t? That was a glimpse at the grand plan. That didn’t go through. So, now there are two more approaches that are visible that they are trying.
The first approach is to just chip away towards this goal. They opened up a few MPA’s and now they are asking for a few more. In a few years, they will ask for a few more and after that, a few more. Eventually they will meet their closure goal.
The second way is to make fishermen BEG THEM for an “easier way”. They are gambling on the thought that you guys are too stupid to wade through the regulations. The goal is to burn you out and get you so confused that you will just beg them for something else. That’s when they sell you on the idea of “giving up the Bible of regulations” for their ecosystem management scheme.
Very manipulative, but it’s what is happening. As Redfish_Matt says. They are not stupid. They are manipulating you. Don’t stand for it. It’s way past time to fight back.
Jason, in what way is the govt not manipulating the american people if money and resources (of any kind) are involved in the equation? How does gas cost .25 a gallon more at one station less than 5 miles from another station that is in the same county paying the same taxes? i will end my rant there but im down to drink a beer a discuss other things sometime soon
quote:
Originally posted by FishnBarrels
Jason, in what way is the govt not manipulating the american people if money and resources (of any kind) are involved in the equation? How does gas cost .25 a gallon more at one station less than 5 miles from another station that is in the same county paying the same taxes? i will end my rant there but im down to drink a beer a discuss other things sometime soon
No doubt, but this is one rare opportunity that we actually get to face our manipulators in person! I just wish people would catch on to what is going on. I honestly wish these meetings were so hostile and loud that the SAFMC was scared to enter the room. That's what the kingfish guys did and after the SAFMC crapped their britches, they backed off on them quite a bit. They were actually worried about physical confrontation in some of the meetings a few years ago. That's how they should feel every time. They need to hate their job and move onto something that they can handle like school crossing guard...
PS. Let’s catch up soon. I am headed to the DR in a couple of days, but will sync up with you when I get back.
PS, my reason to point these out is so that people realize that trying to make “suggestions” is just pissing in the wind. They know all of these things. They know that they can line up seasons very easily. They just don’t want to and would rather play dumb.
quote:
Originally posted by Squid Row
Ecosystem based management is the new buzz phrase, massive area closures, ridiculously small seasons, marine spatial planning, catch shares, marine wilderness zones - these are all the predecessors that people said would never happen and now look, they happened and are happening.
Exactly. They decided more than a decade ago that this is the direction that they want to go. They just need a clever way to implement the plan. They are pretty close and unfortunately have a pretty effective action plan. My prediction is that if we don't get Waugh and Cupka off of the council, and Crabtree out, that they will achieve this in the next 10 years. That sounds like a lot of time, but it's not.
I agree with all but two points in the last seven posts. We do not have to be hostile and we have to offer our own SOLUTIONS to solve the problems they created and get enough public support to make the council implement them. The key to victory is for us to stand united behind positive solutions instead of always against evil agendas. What’s the alternative, predict the future and wait?
quote:
Originally posted by freefish7
I agree with all but two points in the last seven posts. We do not have to be hostile and we have to offer our own SOLUTIONS to solve the problems they created and get enough public support to make the council implement them. The key to victory is for us to stand united behind positive solutions instead of always against evil agendas. What’s the alternative, predict the future and wait?
I appreciate your efforts, but you are about 5 years behind the rest of us.
skinneej, so you think we should passively support the gross mismanagement of our quotas while angrily opposing MPAs?
One of the main reasons VMS did not pass in CEBA-3 is because I got people across America sending in comments opposing Orwellian Vessel Monitoring Systems by doing media interviews, giving speeches, and talking to thousands of individuals. The council received more comments from inland citizens than fishermen. I have collected thousands of signatures on postcard, paper, and online petitions supporting and opposing various fishery issues including the 17A and B area closures. The only we win any battles is IF enough people stand united in support of or opposition to something. I may have only been at this for a little over three years, but I have dedicated those years to fighting for our freedom to fish. I went from being on the water 200+ days a years to being able to count on one hand how many days I’ve fished in three years. While you fish, I fight!
quote:
Originally posted by freefish7
skinneej, so you think we should passively support the gross mismanagement of our quotas while angrily opposing MPAs?
One of the main reasons VMS did not pass in CEBA-3 is because I got people across America sending in comments opposing Orwellian Vessel Monitoring Systems by doing media interviews, giving speeches, and talking to thousands of individuals. The council received more comments from inland citizens than fishermen. I have collected thousands of signatures on postcard, paper, and online petitions supporting and opposing various fishery issues including the 17A and B area closures. The only we win any battles is IF enough people stand united in support of or opposition to something. I may have only been at this for a little over three years, but I have dedicated those years to fighting for our freedom to fish. I went from being on the water 200+ days a years to being able to count on one hand how many days I’ve fished in three years. While you fish, I fight!
I don't think you understand me. I didn't say you shouldn't fight. I said that they aren't really open to solutions. The only solution is hostility. That's why they backed off of VMS. It's not because they got email. It's because they got ANGRY, HOSTILE emails. Again, many of us have been fighting for years (natureboy probably the longest). We've all tried brining them friendly solutions, but the only thing they understand is HOSTILITY. It probably takes them back to their days when they got bullied on the playground. I'm suggesting that we kick in the front door and demand their heads. You can call that "passive" if you want to, but I would hate to see what you consider "aggressive".
It is time for a massive, news making ruckus because this &@&$t is not going to stop no matter how many realistic solutions are offered
They don’t care about reality, they care about their agenda. Their agenda directly conflicts with reality
Squid Row II
22 Shamrock WA
Flounder Pounder II
16 Sandpiper Skiff
It took a multi front assault to stop VMS. Everything that happened contributed to the result. In my opinion., the state’s legislatures actions had a considerable effect. Also I expect Haley likely sent a note to her appointee’s letting them know what the plan was. But beware - bad things are on the horizon. We must get more involvement from the fringes of the business - the fish houses - boat dealers - tackle industry - chambers of commerce, mayors, inshore - trollers and near shore fishers. Have you seen what real gag grouper sells for lately? Most of this price is from regulation compliance and the supply and demand scenario. The SAFMC reduces the supply and the prices reflect.
There is a fine line between being hostile and threatening government agents in a way that brings federal charges and hurts our fight. The problem with past solutions has been the lack of a unified front. We can unite against something, but it seems very hard to get people to unite behind solutions that solve the problems which were created to advance agendas that restrict our freedom to fish and eat American seafood. We can be angry without crossing a line they will perceive as threatening. It does take pressure from many angles to stop big brother from doing something evil they are hell-bent on doing or to convince our public servants to do something right. We need to coordinate our efforts and fight on as many levels as possible without resorting to violence or threats of it. You can believe there is a very low threshold for what they will consider a threat to their safety. We need to oppose the bad ideas while presenting our own solutions in a unified way. The solution of marking existing MPAs with data buoys equipped with video cameras to monitor any poachers was one most people supported and showed it was not necessary to violate our Constitutional Rights to monitor closed areas. Most people agree a positive alternative to derby fisheries or catch shares is to MANAGE quotas so everything is legal at the same time so we can target fish with higher limits while still keeping most of what we accidentally catch with lower limits. Just saying we oppose catch shares without offering a solution to end the derby fisheries equals passive support for the status quo.
I have an online radio show we could use to have a roundtable type discussion if anyone is interested in working on an action plan. We have far more in common than seems to come across in short posts. We need to work together instead of fighting amongst each other.
Here is an excerpt from my CEBA3 public comments.
"CEBA3 is a good example of the “evils of bureaucracy” Joseph Pew warned us about when he started his PEW charity. These “evils” are un
I never used the word “threat”. Read the emails in the public comments on VMS. They aren’t “threats”. They are hostile… You can have a very heated discussion without resorting to threats of physical violence.