2.) We all participate in a blood sport. To go out there and think that fishing (no matter the motivation or end result for the animal) has no impact is naive and wrong. But where you are wrong is assuming that we (catch and release anglers) don’t know that
“Then why are most in denial?”" You hit the nail on the head here…All my fishhook facts came from DNR DIRECT!
quote:Originally posted by Mad_Mike
This is just too much… I really got a kick out of reading both this thread and the other one… I’ve bit my tounge as much as possible but this is just too much…
So… per your request Toppy… i’m gonna give it to you point by point… the following statements are all provable fact… not conjecture opinion or slander… just facts… ok lets go.
1.) Of all the things SC does poorly, redfish management is not one of them. In fact… we are the standard by which most states have based their management efforts off of. So coming on here and telling those of us who fish here and see the work, sweat, and blood that this states DNR have poured into the redfish stock and telling us that you “think” that there is a better way… probly not gonna fly. The redfish populations are looking good… just let the folks that get paid to do the research make the laws…
2.) We all participate in a blood sport. To go out there and think that fishing (no matter the motivation or end result for the animal) has no impact is naive and wrong. But where you are wrong is assuming that we (catch and release anglers) don’t know that. I fly fish almost exclusively… as such 99% of the fish I catch are lip hooked. I’ve also spent enough time on the water to know how to fight a fish, quickly land them, handle them properly, and release them. Do some die even with all that effort… probably… does this mean the laws need to be changed no… but you can stop your rant abou
Only 1 comment to 1 point made, Toppy? Surely,you can do better than that! Was the breakdown too complicated for you or do you now realize how many absurd statements you have made?
That About covers everything…Most of my scientific “quotes” came directly from DNR surveys and the many other reports / studies of reds done over the years by many scientists.
My personal experience/observations and suggestions are just that(personal 100% observed by me).
Attacks and counterattacks are just a waste of time.I know where to catch the reds,there are plenty out there, And I personally am killing many more than 3 to keep 3.
I guess the real question here is why???
Why I kill more than you?Already answered
Why gut hooked fish die? Already answered by scientific data.( hooks in guts penetrate and damage organs outside the stomach lining long before they “dissolve”.Denial and stating you use fast dissolving hooks is simply a denial that makes some “feel good”.A true conservationist would see that those fish are used for food,however “feelgooders” claim they live or serve as a “natural” food for the crabs/shrimpies,etc. Those “feelgooders” are simply justifying their catch/release as many as they want to for FUN!
I could go on and on and on…why go on? Denial for personal pleasure is gonna win here.Deny deny deny…but you guys know catch/release saves most but kills some (just for pleasure).I personally believe you guys that catch/release for pleasure are entitled to do just that,however the HSUS and Peta guys will get you long before they stop me from catch/eat(for the combination of for fun(pleasure) and food.
All of this is pointless…My rights to catch/eat fish will by far outlive catch for fun rights. Time will tell.
quote:Originally posted by RADDADDY
Only 1 comment to 1 point made, Toppy? Surely,you can do better than that! Was the breakdown too complicated for you or do you now realize how many absurd statements you have made?
Hey sells fish Your way is the right way.And My way is the wrong way? Thanks for telling me that…I think your way is fine and it makes me want to agree with you…Your way is right and my way is wrong. WE agree!
Throwing a lure(never seen one with a circle hook) is more challenging and better for the fish than my way,My way is catching live bait and finding where the fish are feeding…Certainly less challenging than purchasing and tossing lures…You are so right again.
Admitting tha I uselessly kill reds is wrong. You win again!
Denying this is right and admitting it is wrong.
Congratulations!
quote:[i]Originally posted by 23Sailfish[/i
Because you’re doing it wrong.
Stubbornness certainly has its helpful features. You always know what you are going to be thinking tomorrow.
Hey sells fish Your way is the right way.And My way is the wrong way? Thanks for telling me that…I think your way is fine and it makes me want to agree with you…Your way is right and my way is wrong. WE agree!
Throwing a lure(never seen one with a circle hook) is more challenging and better for the fish than my way,My way is catching live bait and finding where the fish are feeding…Certainly less challenging than purchasing and tossing lures…You are so right again.
Admitting tha I uselessly kill reds is wrong. You win again!
Denying this is right and admitting it is wrong.
Congratulations!
quote:[i]Originally posted by 23Sailfish[/i
Because you’re doing it wrong.
Stubbornness certainly has its helpful features. You always know what you are going to be thinking tomorrow.
23Sailfish is not Sellsfish…come to the oyster roast Jan 25 and meet both of them…I promise you will come away the better on multiple levels…accept my invitation?
You need to invite tree-my-dog so we can watch each other’backs(he and I). I still haven’t gotten over the attacks from the woodsticks controversy.Probably gonna change my handle here to “REDKILLA”.
Thanks for the invite.
quote:Originally posted by Bonzo72
quote:Originally posted by toppyblue
Hey sells fish Your way is the right way.And My way is the wrong way? Thanks for telling me that…I think your way is fine and it makes me want to agree with you…Your way is right and my way is wrong. WE agree!
Throwing a lure(never seen one with a circle hook) is more challenging and better for the fish than my way,My way is catching live bait and finding where the fish are feeding…Certainly less challenging than purchasing and tossing lures…You are so right again.
Admitting tha I uselessly kill reds is wrong. You win again!
Denying this is right and admitting it is wrong.
Congratulations!
quote:[i]Originally posted by 23Sailfish[/i
Because you’re doing it wrong.
Stubbornness certainly has its helpful features. You always know what you are going to be thinking tomorrow.
Toppy,you seem rightfully concerned if you are killing more fish than you are keeping. This won’t happen if you use a true circle hook. If you will go by Haddrells, I will call them and pay over the phone for a pack of circle hooks if you will let them tell you how to use them. I’ll bet others will will chip in for more. Hopefully you will become a proponent of them once you use them, you won’t need to set the hook like you do J-hooks. Maybe one day coastal regs will be as advanced as the striper rules on the Roanoke river during the spawning run. There, bait fisherman must use a circle hook.
Yeah,I remember when the propoganda came out about circle hooks…At first(what i read) claimed they were just as effective hooking a fish as offset hooks,then later data and personal experience showed otherwise…The circle hook was designed for long lines(those are unattended trot lines that self hook the fish.)) With the circle hooks I miss a lot of fish bites…It is definitely a better hook for liphooking if it is not offset.Wide offset circle hooks are not much different than the gamakatsu octopus for mortality rates…
All you guys using non offset circle hooks are definitely doing the exact right thing for minimizing mortality of reds!!! Not a good hook for catch and eat.According to my experience and the literature I have researched the circle hooks self set as they are exiting the mouth with a natural spinning or twisting motion…Jerk them to set the hook and miss the fish…gently pull in the line and more hooked.
I have searched and searched for data on the survival rates of sluggish worn out released reds…There is none that i have found.I know you guys and DNR want us to believe they all survive.It makes you feel good about catch/release.While catch/release is a true sport and definitely helps the population of reds , going out and targeting breeders could possibly be much worse than keeping 6 juveniles for food.Also catching and releasing many juveniles could be equal to or worse than keeping six and stopping…
Now please, before you jump all over me again, at least consider this::::
When I have fished at creek mouths with clear water I have seen many reds entering or leaving the creeks.These fish when seeing me, dart off like a streak of lightning to avoid danger.A dolphin, shark or other predator would stand little chance of catching one in this natural unmolested state.These powerful torpedo shaped fish are fast, very fast!!!They are amazing and go from zero to full speed almost instantly!!
Common sense(and though rare,and an occasional dolphin coming up to my boa
You need to invite tree-my-dog so we can watch each other’backs(he and I). I still haven’t gotten over the attacks from the woodsticks controversy.Probably gonna change my handle here to “REDKILLA”.
Thanks for the invite.
There’s no need for that. For some reason you think people here are out to get you, which is laughable. I disagree with you, but I’ll be the first to walk up and shake your hand at the oyster roast. I’ve met many people from cf over the years, and not one of them was exactly like what I thought they would be in person. Sure, there are a select few who are crazy in real life, but we love them just the same.
Come out and meet some people. At the end of the day, we’re all passionate about fishing, so theres that.
Government employees at one time years ago served the public.Now seems we serve them.
Government employee salaries are based on budgets,bigger your budget bigger your salary.Justify a bigger piece of the pie(budget) and get a bigger salary and more employees…Not implying that all government employees are liars or leeches.But it is out of control and soon to make us a third world broke ass country.Couple government spending and outsourcing manufacturing to China(for a quick profit) and you have the scenario now occuring…slowly for the past 30 years but surely.When the rest of the world dumps the dollars washington has been freely printing to support over half this country,well, all the reds will suffer as 100% will end up on the table…
Hardworking producing Americans made us the most militarily powerful nation on earth.Without that supremacy we would have already collapsed.So, in reality the military is what allows us to “protect the reds”. Isn’t it ironic that protecting us from the reds(communism) is now saving the reds(reddrums)?
quote:Originally posted by jtsnake
quote:Originally posted by toppyblue
Are those the very same biologists that brought the wolves and coyotes here??/What a failure! Are they also the same ones that stocked those little varmints that ate all the bird eggs?
FYI:All that stuff they (Marine biologists)learned in college books is readily available to all on the internet, if you can log on and search for it.
Of all the inane stuff that you have posted on this thread, I find these two paragraphs to be the most amusing. First, marine biologists did not bring wolves or coyotes to SC. The “marine” in the name den
native???yeah they were wiped out and reintroduced on an island here in S.C.I believe they were red wolves…
I thought those georgia college educated biologists introduced the coyotes and they just crossed the bridges to us… …I know me and a friend talked to dnr biologists in the field on cape Romain one day back in 2010 and they were surveying bird populatonns.they are the very ones that told me about the little varmints eating all the eggs and reducing bird populations…[quote]
I’m going to refrain from the red fish part as it seems to have been covered very well.
On wolves, yes native and yes Red Wolves.
Never heard the Georgia theory on coyote introduction to S.C. I do know for a fact that some escaped out of “Fox” pens years ago.
Thanks for the invite 23 sailfish!!! i would love to come!
For FRED67,I just read reports about them crossing the bridges…not a fact. Did you see them dig out of the “foxpens”???
No, never saw one dig out. Most pens have electric fence bottom and top. What I have seen is a tree (or two) fall on a fence and open up the “free” world to them.
Back to Georgia, do you know for a fact that Georgia introduced Coyotes into the wild on purpose? If you do pass it on, facts only. I’ve got a real interest in this. I truly hate coyotes. I’ve heard the rumors that S.C. insurance companies introduced them here because of all the deer related vehicle damage. No proof just rumor, and probably totally false.
georgia DNR denies stocking…Seems a combination of Migration and fox pen escapes are the culprits…Also found some info that s.c. native red wolves were in fact part of the coyote family?(closer to a coyote genetically than a typical wolf)…georgia DNR however states they(coyotes) are good for balancing nature.You can shoot and trap them with no limits.It is illegal to poison them.An oldtimer once told me the way they killed them out west was to soak a 2 inch piece of sponge that expands when wet with bacon grease and spread them out where the coyotes travel…He claims the coyote cannot throw them up(vomit them) nor pass them,so they just die,
