Will we have a fish kill in 2025? Data thread

The old timers around here know I’m an engineer, so I’m all about the data. I used to be pretty obsessive and stress about water temps and trout kills, but eventually I came to realize that - why stress? Mother nature doesn’t care what I think :slight_smile:

Anyway, just out of curiosity and trying to learn about what exactly causes a fish kill, I have plotted some data. To keep it apples to apples, this is all Charleston Harbor water temps from NOAA.

Our two most recent documented fish kills were 2010 and 2018. Here I have plotted those two years (Red and Orange) along with the 2019 season which was unusually warm (Green) and this year (Purple). This is as of the last hour. You can see the uptick over the warm weekend and a sharp drop overnight.

Notably, 2010 had an extended period of time with water in the 40s. Guessing a lot of opportunity for Cormorants and Dolphins to fill up. 2018’s snowfall happened in early Jan and you can see the steep drop down to 42 deg. Pretty bad - although the overall kill wasn’t as bad as we thought, it turned out. Everyone volunteering to release ALL trout (remember #release2018sc?) made a huge impact in the rebound in my strong opinion.

Well, get your popcorn and watch. I’ll post and update around midday each day this week for those who are interested besides me.

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Man, 2 Fridays ago the water was 40.4° but the reds were in the ditch that they’re in all year long, but this past weeks was a first ever complete bust with only mullet around. We never saw or bumped the first red which had me concerned with this despite the water being 49.2° now. It may not have killed them but it absolutely relocated them

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This is the Charleston Harbor water temp and of course in localized areas the water can be a lot colder (and in some cases, maybe warmer). Hopefully they relocated to some deeper, warmer water.

I’m gonna wait on @barbawang to say before I guess, lol

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Saw 44-48 today in the Rivers

I saw 51* on a flat way up in the Stono this afternoon that was full of spottail. Caught 5 and kept 1.

EF

Good call

Me too

Thanks, Dave. We really appreciate this, and all the other things y’all do.

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Me three !

Update 1/21. Steep drop in progress, seeing 48F now.

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Seems like last time (2017?) the creeks had a lot of floaters were the days after the water temps dipped below the mid to lower 40’s for a couple days back to back.

I was just looking back at some of @Optiker past temp plots and that seems to be the case.

Here are some past insights

https://forum.charlestonfishing.com/search?q=Trout%20temp%20kill

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Been the topic of much discussion over the last week. My predecessor has old man wisdom about these things, and one of his core theories is that the severity of a “winter kill” largely depends on the starting water temperature and the rate of change during the cold period. Clearly the absolute minimum and duration are also huge… but he thinks that at this current starting temperature of 48-50F, fish may already be “conditioned” both metabolically and spatially, i.e. they’re used to being cold and they have moved to the most insulated bodies of water they are willing to travel to- often deep holes in creeks for winter trout.

FWIW the species that we classically see having the most visible and dramatic impacts are spotted seatrout and white shrimp. In 2010, I saw a seagull carrying off a lump of jumbo shrimp because when it gets to the mid-40’s for a couple days, they’re too cold to move and they start rolling over. same for trout. dolphins have a field day, pelicans and herons feet are freezing to the high marsh and the webbed skin between their toes begins to die, and adult shrimp roll around the bottom of the harbor with the tide until their antennae tie them together in knots, never to be free again.

maybe before 2010, but I can’t remember… it was before kids. A buddy and I took his 17’ scout out into the folly the day after a snow event. had to pile snow out of the boat at the landing, and otw to the spot we saw an osprey pluck a slow trout off a flat. got there, made a snowman on the boat’s cutting board with cut shrimp for arms, and caught red drum because metabolically those same temps don’t really bother them. Rap knows this.

so here’s the thing: it depends on a lot of stuff. surface area/depth/volume of water body, amount of current, amount of (frozen?) precipitation, intensity and duration of wind, intensity and duration of cold event are probably the biggest factors that we can put metrics on both ahead of time and afterward to document these things as Dave is so excellent at doing.

the retired old man knowledge has coined a new term in the last few days: “the slush effect”. Somehow, this seemed not to affect the seatrout in 2018 as much as I think most of us predicted. If we get howling winds across the water at the same time that we get significant frozen precipitation on those water bodies and the marsh, the resulting iterations of tidal flows from marsh surfaces and feeder creeks could supercool smaller bodies of water and maybe even mix with the larger ones to a degree that drives a historic cold event more than the air temperature alone could ever do in that same span of time.

so now i’ve said nothing for quite a few paragraphs because the last time we all thought we saw this coming, they turned out ok for the most part.

here’s a more fine-tuned metric for y’all to chew on than all of the above musings:

" When winter water temperature falls to 46 degrees or below for seven or more days, most of the overwintering brood stock is wiped out." [SCDNR - Shrimp]

46 is also considered the threshold temperature for spotted seatrout. bring on the reports of fish laying on the bottom, my boss is waiting for them.

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IF there is a fish kill and you come across a recently deceased trout of legal size, would you eat it? Would they only float once they begin to decompose?

I’d eat it

Always wished I could’ve been one of the scientists to find a whole wooly mammoth in the ice and slice off a Flinstone size steak

I’ve heard reports of trout “laying dead on the bottom” but it doesn’t make sense that their swim bladder would allow that to happen. maybe cold water is just dense enough compared to their chilly bodies?

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I saw a big school of reds pushing through shallow water yesterday afternoon, on a dark mud flat. They weren’t eating, but they were there.

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Great stuff Brock, we’re lucky to have you

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Incredible info, thanks. X2 what Opt said!

There’s some fb warriors that could use a dose a reality, some of them even used to participate on this forum… anyway, one more reason I dont frequent that place as much as I used to, it’s got its place too though I guess lol :person_shrugging:

Is this the school under your dock that you’re gatekeeping? I have been snooping every dock i come across in case its yours but I don’t know what boat you have nowadays.

What day are we going out scooping? Let me know when you’re allowed to go out and play.

Well, looking at that metric out of one eye, and the wind and temp forecast for the next 5 to 7 days out of the other eye…, , ,

Current Harbor temp is just a hair below 50.
Lost just over a half degree today from what I can tell.

My guess is it’s not gonna be pretty this weekend. I hope I’m wrong, but with reports lately of mid 40s temps already on the creeks???

Just darn.

Wonder what the lowest temp a Snook can survive. Maybe @Vegas_Dave will weigh in now that he sees what… never mind.

Thanks again @barbawang for the lesson, especially the part about the shrimp antenna wads.