quote:Again, pain is a perception completely made up in your brain. It certainly "feels" real because your brain wants it to feel real to you as a warning to you.
Originally posted by YnRquote:
Originally posted by skinneejquote:What about his hair?
Originally posted by EdistodanielMy perception is all I have, so why does it matter if it’s real or fake or aliens? As far as I’m concerned, it’s real, you’re real, Trump is real, etc.
The hair…, it’s there. It exists just like you and me, but it may not be real.
You know what the difference b.w a rock in a dream and a rock in reality is? Kick one and report your findings.
quote:That's fine, I'm perfectly willing to accept that you believing in a "higher power" that has nothing to do with the "formation and condition of the universe"... I just want to know if you believe in a "higher power" AT ALL? It's really a "yes" or "no" answer... But, you can qualify it anyway you like as long as you still answer "yes" or "no"...
Originally posted by EdistodanielYou’re not going to be able to understand this through your lens, but my belief of any sort of higher power has zero to do with the formation and condition of the universe, evolution, pretty much anything that has to do with science.
The question still remains… Do you, or do you NOT believe that there is a “higher power” at work?
quote:
Originally posted by skinneejquote:Again, pain is a perception completely made up in your brain. It certainly "feels" real because your brain wants it to feel real to you as a warning to you.
Originally posted by YnRquote:
Originally posted by skinneejquote:What about his hair?
Originally posted by EdistodanielMy perception is all I have, so why does it matter if it’s real or fake or aliens? As far as I’m concerned, it’s real, you’re real, Trump is real, etc.
The hair…, it’s there. It exists just like you and me, but it may not be real.
You know what the difference b.w a rock in a dream and a rock in reality is? Kick one and report your findings.
So do you think the rock out of the dream state exists? Why “perceive” pain when there’s really nothing there. What’s the point of warning if nothing is really there to hurt you.
quote:
Originally posted by skinneejquote:That's fine, I'm perfectly willing to accept that you believing in a "higher power" that has nothing to do with the "formation and condition of the universe"... I just want to know if you believe in a "higher power" AT ALL? It's really a "yes" or "no" answer... But, you can qualify it anyway you like as long as you still answer "yes" or "no"...
Originally posted by EdistodanielYou’re not going to be able to understand this through your lens, but my belief of any sort of higher power has zero to do with the formation and condition of the universe, evolution, pretty much anything that has to do with science.
The question still remains… Do you, or do you NOT believe that there is a “higher power” at work?
What if it’s “I don’t know?”
Interesting discussions. Just got back to it ( I hate it when work keeps me busy, but I have bills to pay). To answer your earlier question skinneej, the same one you are asking edistodaniel.
No, I do not believe there is a supreme being that created, controls, or oversees our universe. I do believe in a higher power, though. And that power is what we refer to as Nature. Not mother or father nature. Just nature. Life happens because the universe around us provides the opportunity for life to exist. Life survives when it is capable of handling the physical limitations of this planet. Life dies out when it cannot. Life is here on this planet and, I believe, on other planets somewhere out there. Life that is similar to our own (they breath, eat, reproduce, etc.) but just not like our own. Heck, maybe that similar life even contemplates and discusses their existence with each other. Interesting.
j
quote:It depends... Is that an honest "I don't know", or an "I don't want to admit even the smallest inkling", "I don't know"?
Originally posted by EdistodanielWhat if it’s “I don’t know?”
quote:I don't mind to admit things, but I'm not close minded enough to think i'm 100% right about things I don't know about. So I'm not sure there is, but i'm also not sure there isn't.
Originally posted by skinneejquote:It depends... Is that an honest "I don't know", or an "I don't want to admit even the smallest inkling", "I don't know"?
Originally posted by EdistodanielWhat if it’s “I don’t know?”
Okay, fair enough. I don’t really have a follow up. It was a genuine question to see where you stood. Again, as I mentioned before, I’m inclined to believe that true “atheists” are very rare.
Both atheists and theists operate on faith.
If you’re lucky enough to be fishing, you’re lucky enough.
quote:Fred,
Originally posted by Island Boy
Thank you for your reply. My faith is far stronger than my questions. I believe God is more along the lines of a farmer or a chemist. He can place the seeds in the soil, provide all the necessary needs but has no direct control of the plant. Anyone who has worked or owned a farm (not some plants in the backyard) understands how adding a few ingredients can create such different outcomes for the crop.we as humans create most of our problems and catastrophes…
The bible should be required reading but not taken as direct fact. It is a book written by man for man but has the morals we all need taught through a series of stories. Like you I believe this world would be a much better place if people actually read the entire bible twice rather than claiming they understand it without ever fully reading it.
My question wasn’t one to attack or undermine someomes faith. I hope everyone has some!
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“Praise the lord and pass the ammunition” -Howell Forgy
[/quote]
You bring up farming. I remember as a young child how gambling was so bad. Farming has to be the biggest gamble on the market… for a working man. I also remember being told how bad it was to drink alcohol, I don’t disagree that it can be bad, and I don’t disagree that some let it control them, I also don’t disagree that I’ve probably over done it. All that said, I don’t think that drinking in moderation if the drinker can control him/her self is a bad thing. I love a beer while fishing if my son is driving, if not I love a cold diet pepsi or gatoraid.
“If Bruce Jenner can keep his wiener and be called a woman, I can keep my firearms and be considered disarmed.”
quote:
Originally posted by xmanquote:
Originally posted by skinneejLet’s be honest… Most of us here understand the physical universe about as well as a 2 dimensional PACMAN (yes, the video game) understands our 3 dimensional world. How could humans even pretend to comprehend what a 4th or 5th dimension would look like?
Yet, you argue that statistical improbabilities of life Earth somehow prove existence of god? Just because you, or I, or others can’t explain it (yet) doesn’t prove existence of god.
We (scientists more so) have a pretty good handle on how life exists on Earth and in our galaxy. That is the scope of our knowledge base.
As an atheist myself, who doesn’t have any underlying hints of beliefs in a god, I may be accused of limiting myself and not opening my eyes to the world around me, and being close minded. I would suggest those same ideas back to people who claim that life doesn’t exist elsewhere. Why does life elsewhere have to mimic life on Earth? According to Google, our periodic table has 118 elements. Could there be other elements in the universe, on the billions of other planets, in billions of other galaxies? Is it possible for life to have evolved based on these other elements. Lots of assumptions I know, but something to think about.
John
15’ Ocean Kayak Scupper Pro
as a self admitted atheist, I respect your choice. I am not one to judge. I’ll always believe in GOD. on a side note I do believe in life beyond our planet. GOD created the heavens and the Earth. Does that life resemble man? Most probably not.
"If Bruce Jenne
This thread is wading into ETT3 territory…
RBF
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Beer FrothThis thread is wading into ETT3 territory…
RBF
Only if you push it DH. I think all is good. I also think Life is Good. Admittedly growing shorter…
I’m a pointed out asshat, that aside, I love life and our GOD! More importantly I love you! no i have not been drinking.
“If Bruce Jenner can keep his wiener and be called a woman, I can keep my firearms and be considered disarmed.”
quote:
Originally posted by skinneejOkay, fair enough. I don’t really have a follow up. It was a genuine question to see where you stood. Again, as I mentioned before, I’m inclined to believe that true “atheists” are very rare.
I tend to agree (write that down). The only people who could be 100% sure they’re right have to be huge narcissists.
quote:
Originally posted by Edistodanielquote:
Originally posted by skinneejOkay, fair enough. I don’t really have a follow up. It was a genuine question to see where you stood. Again, as I mentioned before, I’m inclined to believe that true “atheists” are very rare.
I tend to agree (write that down). The only people who could be 100% sure they’re right have to be huge narcissists.
Your assumption is wrong.
quote:
Originally posted by SurfFishLifeBoth atheists and theists operate on faith.
If you’re lucky enough to be fishing, you’re lucky enough.
Nope. Faith is a belief in something with no physical proof. (True) Atheists don’t believe in that which isn’t proven, and make no “leaps” into a belief.
Big Bang and Evolution are two prime examples - both are qualified by the word theory. Theory isn’t fact, or a proof… its the search for proof.
quote:Dude, you know there is someone with a magical wand waving it around creating new things every moment. Funny how that wand never runs out of juice, must have Energizer bunnies running their ass off.
Originally posted by jisuhoInteresting discussions. Just got back to it ( I hate it when work keeps me busy, but I have bills to pay). To answer your earlier question skinneej, the same one you are asking edistodaniel.
No, I do not believe there is a supreme being that created, controls, or oversees our universe. I do believe in a higher power, though. And that power is what we refer to as Nature. Not mother or father nature. Just nature. Life happens because the universe around us provides the opportunity for life to exist. Life survives when it is capable of handling the physical limitations of this planet. Life dies out when it cannot. Life is here on this planet and, I believe, on other planets somewhere out there. Life that is similar to our own (they breath, eat, reproduce, etc.) but just not like our own. Heck, maybe that similar life even contemplates and discusses their existence with each other. Interesting.
j
quote:Or you're a huge narcissist?
Originally posted by jughedquote:
Originally posted by Edistodanielquote:
Originally posted by skinneejOkay, fair enough. I don’t really have a follow up. It was a genuine question to see where you stood. Again, as I mentioned before, I’m inclined to believe that true “atheists” are very rare.
I tend to agree (write that down). The only people who could be 100% sure they’re right have to be huge narcissists.
Your assumption is wrong.
quote:
Originally posted by Edistodanielquote:Or you're a huge narcissist?
Originally posted by jughedquote:
Originally posted by Edistodanielquote:
Originally posted by skinneejOkay, fair enough. I don’t really have a follow up. It was a genuine question to see where you stood. Again, as I mentioned before, I’m inclined to believe that true “atheists” are very rare.
I tend to agree (write that down). The only people who could be 100% sure they’re right have to be huge narcissists.
Your assumption is wrong.
Nope.
Please cite some reasons/examples that back your assumption. If not, what you say is just unfounded blabber about people you know little or nothing about.
Its easy to blindly throw bombs at people…
quote:I saw the jab the first time you floated it out there... But it's obvious you want a reaction...
Originally posted by EdistodanielI tend to agree (write that down). The only people who could be 100% sure they’re right have to be huge narcissists.
Here is what you have to consider… Christian faith is an “all in” activity… If you think, “Hey, there there might be a god, or there might not”, then you aren’t a Christian. The type of faith that is required is the type of faith that produces repentance and change in a follower’s life. This comes from KNOWING God or a lifelong search to know God better. Not to say that Christians don’t periodically struggle with their faith as they are challenged with a secular worldview, but they rebound from it with surety and confidence, (often more confidence than before). Even the greatest of Christians such as John the Baptist and Jesus’ original apostles had these moments of “little faith”…
So, you can call it “narcissism” (incorrectly) if you want. But anything less than a TRUE belief that God exists seems contrary to the type of faith required by the gospel…
On the other hand, atheists are SO SURE that God doesn’t exist, that that they are willing to be ETERNITY on that belief. That’s COMPLETE self-reliance on their own ideas and the true definition of narcissism.
You think it goes “both ways”, but the reality is, it doesn’t… Christians don’t think “I figured it out, therefore I am smarter than you”… That’s what atheists do… That’s PRIDE which is an anti-Christian value…
In other words, your “jab” was a “swing and a miss”…