quote:Who defines what the "core beliefs" are?
Originally posted by SurfFishLifeBut none are core beliefs for followers of Christ.
I reckon everybody has to define those for themselves.
Capt. Larry Teuton
912-six55-5674
lteuton at aol dot com
“Ships are the nearest things to dreams that hands have ever made.” -Robert N. Rose
quote:
Originally posted by mac daddyAgain, RWL, I thank you for your participation, but you are still giving opinion, or what you ‘believe’; when verse 19 clearly says “ANY man”. This after you accused me of changing God’s word.
I am trying to establish a point here of seeing the word only through the Gospel and salvation, NOT taking into account the truth seeking after receiving the Gospel, and holding others and ourselves accountable to study for the truth, and not be compromising to allow false teaching to creep in.
I may or may not debate the scripture references concerning eternal salvation, but there are many both ways; so don’t be closed minded because of the teaching you have heard on that subject please.
“The big one’s still swimming, let’s go.”
Where did I accuse you of changing God’s word? Not my intention if you took something that way.
As far as open minded. I think I am pretty open minded or at least very tolerant of others thoughts and opinions. It does not bother me in the least that someone else has a different opinion or interpretation on a matter. I just keep reading the Word and praying to God that He helps me understand it. I believe that as long as one does that one will know when they hear the Truth or not.
quote:Yes, people decide what they believe in, but I don't think that is what was meant above. I think (and please correct if I am wrong) SurfFishLife was talking about the fundamental pillars of Christianity (i.e. Accepting Jesus as Savior, repenting of sins, etc.). In other words, the key things that ALL denominations accept as a base common denominator.
Originally posted by Cracker LarryI reckon everybody has to define those for themselves.
Capt. Larry Teuton
912-six55-5674
lteuton at aol dot com“Ships are the nearest things to dreams that hands have ever made.” -Robert N. Rose
That being said, I think that mac daddy’s concern is more about people redefining God in a way that works for them. I think that is what he means when he refers to “opinion”. In other words, someone might theorize (their personal “opinion”), “Hey, sleeping around makes me really happy and God wants me to be happy, so surely God wants me to sleep around”. But if you go back to the scripture, it’s pretty clear that God would NOT be pleased by this and considers it adulterous and immoral. Thus, the only way to know this is to return to the truth (i.e. see what God says through the scripture). I say “only way” knowing that there are other ways (i.e. another man can tell you), but when you rely on another man, you potentially open yourself up to false teachings because another man can tell you anything they want!
This is my understanding of mac daddy’s intent here. Again, not to condemn, but to WARN you (as a barking dog warns of intruders) of false teachings, in hopes that people will heed the warning and search for the truth. When you hear a barking dog, you can either tell him to “shut up”, or peek out the window to see if there are really any intruders out there! In other words, his message is out of ge
quote:
PS, Larry when I say "you"\"your", I am not referring to you "Larry", but I typically mean "one", "one's"... In other words I am not trying to single you out! I just have poor habit of this incorrect grammar.
Understood completely. You worry too much and your grammar is fine. I put on my thick sheep skin when I visit here 
Capt. Larry Teuton
912-six55-5674
lteuton at aol dot com
“Ships are the nearest things to dreams that hands have ever made.” -Robert N. Rose
quote:Cool. It seems dang near impossible to not sound "preachy" when having theological conversations! So, just wanted to be clear.
Originally posted by Cracker Larryquote:
PS, Larry when I say "you"\"your", I am not referring to you "Larry", but I typically mean "one", "one's"... In other words I am not trying to single you out! I just have poor habit of this incorrect grammar.
Understood completely. You worry too much and your grammar is fine. I put on my thick sheep skin when I visit here
Capt. Larry Teuton
912-six55-5674
lteuton at aol dot com“Ships are the nearest things to dreams that hands have ever made.” -Robert N. Rose
I truly believe that Mac Daddy has posted everything out of love… no doubt. I just think there are bigger issues to discuss. He has a very valid point about Resurrection Day, and I have taken that point. Never really thought about it. I think it hurts everyone’s witness when unbelievers see us bickering about ( what I believe to be)non-essentials. I did not say not important… I understand that he pointedly directed tis to Christians, but we are certainly not exclusive on this site, and not this is not the I prefer to let others “see the Jesus” in me. I I said I was not posting again, the reasoning was what I mention above, not that I have ANYTHING against Mac Daddy.
quote:
Originally posted by skinneejquote:I think that mac daddy IS promoting love with his post (probably not the love that you are referring to though). What is the MOST important commandment?
Originally posted by bgfThis will be my last post on this… I guess the best way sum up my opinion here is this, as followers of Christ we are to have unity in the essential doctrines ( doctrine of God’s infallible Word, the oneness of the Trinity Christ Crucified and Resurrected, and the priesthood of the believer, being the ones that immediately come to mind) and in non-essentials we have diversity, and in all of our beliefs we should promote love.
RWL, I got you mixed up with bgf, sorry about that; when I said you accused me of changing the word of God.
Bgf, I assume you are aiming Matthew chapter 23 toward me. If so, as I stated earlier , your translation changed Rabbi, also called “Master”, in the KJV, to teacher; thus, dintegrating the office of teacher that Ephesians 4:11 says Jesus gave ‘teachers’ along with other offices.
There are many reference points in that chapter to be pointed out, probably best is in verse 14, which unfortunately your post left out. Stating the false teachers will receive the "greater (()ation". Thus, that (()ation warning TO us is the very reason for this thread, as skinneej stated, in love of course.
We have seen many, many examples here of ‘I believe’, ‘my opinion’, ‘to sum up’, etc. as though we speak for God, and we have ‘it together’ to use a worldly term.
That is the most important thing to note, that we MUST ONLY give scripture or interpretation of scriptures, when at all possible. I truly am convinced that we have made great strides in the progressing to that action in the future.
We have actually received a few testimonies that some have changed their traditions.
“The big one’s still swimming, let’s go.”
Bgf and Surf fish life made doctrine comments that need to be addressed. One is “God’s infallible word”. The ONLY infallible word is the original Manuscripts in Hebrew and Greek. There are soooooo many errors in the KJV, NIV, etc., That we MUST check out everything we study or believe in the Hebrew and Greek definitions given in dictionaries or concordances as available.
The internet makes this very simple, and a study of the Bible origins is highly recommended. Then you can see where you are in the word of truth and teachings/translations etc.
My calling is to expose the Matthew chapter 23 type teachers in this end time to prevent DECEIVING of Christians as Jesus warned in the next chapter, Matthew chapter 24; both being paired for warnings in the end time.
The “Priesthood of believers” was also mentioned as doctrine rightly so. The Priesthood involves the Called, the Chosen, the Elect, the Very Elect, as well as Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, Teachers as described in Ephesians 4:11.
ALL TRUE CHRISTIANS belong in one of those categories, therefore we MUST prepare for our ministries as commanded. We do not have the option of being complacent with the word of God, NOR COMPROMISING on the word of God.
As Jesus said “I must be about my Father’s business”, so we have the SAME HIGH CALLING, and we are commanded “Be ye holy, even as I am holy” by Jesus Himself.
We see in Matthew chapter 23 the SAME problem exists today in our churches, that of false teaching, and “say one thing, do another” by our leaders today.
Thus, exposure and correction are in order as unpopular as they are for certain.
I could make several corrections to some posts here, but not at this juncture in my teaching ministry here.
All posts are welcome now, as long as they are Christian in nature, and don’t make PERSONAL attacks on anyone, meaning character, personality, etc. Disagreement is NOT personal attack, unless one makes it such.
“The big one’s still swimming, let’s go.”
MacDaddy,
This is a sensitive topic, and I don’t want to end up angering anyone or arguing, but since you personally invited me in a PM to opine in this thread, I will tell you what the Bible and history say about the original, Divinely ordained Holiday on which the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus historically fell, how early Christians memorialized the occasions, how and why the Resurrection later became commonly referred to as “Easter”, the origins of the name “Easter” and such traditions as bunnies and eggs, and what the Bible says about the moral ramifications of such. Please note that all statements herein are my best understanding of things I’ve read in the Bible, the Church Fathers, and other works that I’ve read over the years regarding church history and the religious traditions of pre-Christian Eurasian cultures. I’ve put a fair amount of time to reading about this and similar topics over the years. My personal faith and reading of Scripture also play a role here.
The New Testament explicitly records that Jesus was Crucified on the Divinely ordained festival of Passover, or “Pesach” in Hebrew, and Rose from the dead during the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Passover–on the 14th day of the Hebrew month of Nisan, followed by, and combined with, a 7-day Feast of Unleavened Bread–commemorates Israel’s Exodus from Egypt, brought about by a final plague on the land of Egypt, from which only Israel was spared. That plague was the death of all the first-born in the land who did not have the blood of a special sacrificial lamb on their doorposts. At the twilight of Passover, Israel was commanded by God to sacrifice a lamb and put its blood on the doorposts of their homes as a sign to the executive angel that their homes were to be spared from the plague by way of a blood-covenant and a sacrifice–“the blood of the Lamb”. Moses was the officiator. The first-born of Egypt were executed by angelic forces while the fist-born of Israel were spared by the blood and set free from slavery. Thencefort
quote:Yes, I think you understood me correctly.
Originally posted by skinneejI think (and please correct if I am wrong) SurfFishLife was talking about the fundamental pillars of Christianity (i.e. Accepting Jesus as Savior, repenting of sins, etc.). In other words, the key things that
ALLProtestant evangelical denominations accept as a base common denominator.
Lee: LOVE your post. I’m about 25 miles from Jerusalem so I’m getting a small glimpse into Pesach in this culture.
If you’re lucky enough to be fishing, you’re lucky enough.
Thanks Lee. That was educational and will probably change my stance and opinion on this.
I knew we would get a good thorough post from you Lee. Thanks for the time to write it. I too, will probably be more attentive to referring to the holiday by Easter. We don’t do egg hunts and such either, but it wasn’t from an educated point on the pagan rituals, more of a it just seemed silly to me, given what the holiday was really all about. Question, given that we both don’t do egg hunts, what if the school or some other organized group of kids are doing one and your kids are attending. Do you instruct them to not participate or just make sure they understand the real holiday and what is about? This could change the way I think about some things, but I want to dig into the Word and see what how God sways my understanding.
Thanks again, also to you macdaddy for bringing up the topic.
I’ve also learned some things here, and certainly gained some things to think about.
Capt. Larry Teuton
912-six55-5674
lteuton at aol dot com
“Ships are the nearest things to dreams that hands have ever made.” -Robert N. Rose
AGAIN I AM WOWED BY GOTCHA!!###!!
TRULY, my brother, you do have the calling of Pastor, with your patience and dilligence.
Now I see why you took so long to reply; masterfully done brother!!!###!!
I will comment more after walking my dogs.
“The big one’s still swimming, let’s go.”
Thanks for sharing all, glad to know so many are believers.God Bless
Local Boy, Just having fun.
75 posts, 1867 reads.
We can TRULY say that Easter/Ressurection Day is a core doctrine, and is essential for faith.
Having said that, there are MANY other subjects that are very essential for faith also. We will tackle them in due time and order, if everyone keeps participating well.
For my comments on Lee’s post, besides GREAT, not a lot to say.
However, some details can be added to any comments or material of course, so here goes.
I found ‘executive Angel’ quite interesting, important to note God does have ranks in Heaven, and degrees of punishment also.
“Egypt’s first born were executed for Israel’s sake”. How does that match up to “kind and tolerant” reference to Christianity and God??? How about to Jesus reactions in the Matthew chapter 23 post in this thread???
ANOTHER tradition that needs to be looked at by all. False Prophets in the Old Covenant were ‘stoned to death’, today we welcome them in our churches and in our pulpits, unknowingly of course. “Wolves in sheep’s clothing” scripture verse reference.
“With the dawn and the east”, thus we have “Sunrise Service” from that worship of dawn or light. We also have Muslims looking to the east when praying.
PASSOVER was and is a VERY important holy-day to God and ALL believers; thus it should never be changed or compromised by anyone for any reason.
VERY interesting indeed to hear this change came in the SECOND century, didn’t take long for the deception to creep in.
The Nicene Council, a Very famous council, wanted to ‘divorce’ Christianity from Judaism, did God feel that way??? AGAIN, a good example of traditional thinking FAR outweighing Biblical thinking, still here today.
“Sunday Ressurection may be more Biblical than other decisions”. Lee acknowledged Jesus was crucified on PASSOVER, NOT Good Friday, so we know from Matthew chapter 12:40 that “Jesus will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth”, and Matthew 28:1 tells us he was gone from the grave BEFORE THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK(Sunday), we can
Thank you all for the kind remarks.
SurfFishLife, I am jealous of your present location. Israel is such a wonderful place that will never leave my mind. I very much hope that I get a chance to return there someday.
MacDaddy, I took a few days to get around to posting here because was waiting for the right point in the discussion so as not to foster or entertain offense or conflict if possible. It’s a particularly sensitive topic for some. I’ve also been quite busy lately and knew it would take me some time to post the thorough post that this deserves.
RWL, per your question about what I would do if my kids found themselves involved in a church or school event that incorporated egg hunts and such, I tell them in advance to opt out but to make sure they are always polite and respectful to authority, and I tell them that I’ll handle any resulting problems. The same goes for Halloween for very similar reasons. It’s never been a problem. Over the years, I’ve come to believe that we all worry too much about what inconveniences will happen, how the kids will respond, what people will think, or how others will react when we are considering whether to take a stand on a value or compromise.
Y’all have a great evening.
Gotcha Covered,
Lee Strickland
Strickland Marine Insurance Agency, Inc.
https://stricklandmarineinsurance.com
843-795-1000 / 800-446-1862
MacDaddy,
I would like to offer some constructive suggestions on two of your comments above. I greatly appreciate your kind words on my post, so please don’t take this as criticism. I just want to help keep pertinent facts in order.
- “Matthew 28:1 tells us he was gone from the grave BEFORE THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK(Sunday), we can easily find the day of crucifixion, and Ressurection.”
That statement is inaccurate. Matthew actually doesn’t say that Jesus was gone from the tomb before the 1st day of the week. It says that as it was dawning on the first day of the week, the witnesses saw that Jesus was gone form the tomb. John 20 reads, “The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark…” In order to accurately understand such verses, you need to understand that a “day” in the Jewish world begins at sundown, not sunrise. So, to a Gentile audience, it LOOKS like the verse is saying that Jesus rose before the 1st day, but to a Jewish audience, it actually doesn’t say that at all because if Jesus rose during the NIGHT following Shabbat, He Rose on the 1st Day. For the Jewish world, the 1st day begins on the night of what the Gentile world considers the 7th day. So, there is no reason to doubt that Jesus actually did rise on the 1st Day. Acts and 1 Corinthians also speak of a traditional gathering of early Christians on the first day of the week. This is why I wrote, “Sunday Resurrection may be more Biblical than other [Nicene] decisions”. Jesus most likely Rose on the first day of the week.
There are many things like this about Scripture. I think it’s most important to focus on the original topic–sanctifying God’s Name and Divine ordinances from those of false deities.
- “We also have Muslims looking to the east when praying.”
I’m not an expert on Islam, but I think that Muslims actually pray facing Mecca, which is east from here, but west from other parts of the world. I also sometimes pray facing east sometimes because that is the direction of Jerusa
GOOD points, Lee; forgot about the Jewish aspect, just took the word TOWARD and dark in the wrong light, THANKS for the correction.
The reference to Muslims praying to the east was used as an EXAMPLE of the word of God being twisted. I knew they did it toward Mecca, which is east from America, not east from all places.
THANKS again for the correction, sometimes I use examples that are relevant to the conversation at hand, but are not relevant to the word of God necessarily. May be a bad habit I need to improve on, thanks again.
“The big one’s still swimming, let’s go.”