for those that know marine ply, is this stuff worth using?
It’s at the Lowes on James island. 1/2" and 3/4".
http://www.roseburg.com/Product/abmarine/
back to the boat porn.
10% of the people catch 90% of the fish.
No.
Capt. Larry Teuton
Swamp Worshiper
Ok I’m really confused about what materials to use now.
For resin I was going to use epoxy.
My plan was and still is to use 1708 for tabbing and skinning the transom.
I was thinking of using 2 layers 12 oz biax for stringers, tabbing the deck, and covering the deck with one layer.
But I talked to someone on the phone at a supply store that suggested using epoxy for bonding the transom and stringers and using poly for the deck with 2 layers of 10 oz e-cloth.
He said it’d save me a considerable amount of cash and use less resin.
Obviously I only know what I’ve studied on the Internet for the last couple months and at this point I have no idea what to do. I like the idea of saving cash but I want this thing to be right.
Any thoughts on the technique that this guy described??
Don’t do it. You’re only going to need a few gallons. How much would you actually save? It’s an inferior product.
Capt. Larry Teuton
Swamp Worshiper
So Larry do you think I should stick with the 12 oz biax for the stringers and 1 layer for the deck? Or go with the 2 layers of 10 oz e-cloth as he suggested?
Yes, I would use 12oz biax on the stringers and deck. 1 layer on the deck is plenty. Any more is just a waste of money.
On the stringers I would use 2 staggered layers of 12 oz biax 6" tape on each side. 1708 is fine for the transom, but it’s hard to work with and soaks up a lot of resin. 2 layers of 12oz cloth would be a better choice and much easier to lay up. 1708 has a layer of mat that adds no strength, just used for bulk and thickness.
What kind of epoxy are you using? If West, it’s good stuff but cost almost twice what the same quality of some other brands do.
Capt. Larry Teuton
Swamp Worshiper
I’ve been looking at the 635 thin epoxy with slow hardener from us composites but haven’t made up my mind. Just shopping around mostly. I’m sure west is the best but I can’t afford it.
Any recommendations?
When you say the 12oz cloth for the transom, what would you tab it with, 12 oz biax?
quote:
I'm sure west is the best but I can't afford it. Any recommendations?
Not necessarily best, just most well known name with good advertising 
Not saying it isn’t good, but there are equals for less.
I mostly use this, and it’s an excellent marine epoxy and I’ve used it for years. Bought 100 gallons or more. A 3 gallon kit for 163.50, http://boatbuildercentral.com/proddetail.php?prod=E_Kit, or 6 gallon kit for $315 The vendor is very reliable also. you’ll get it in 3 days.
I also use some of this and it’s equally as good and comparably priced. $318 for 6 gallons. This vendor is also excellent.
http://www.gulfstreamcomposites.com/product-p/raka_kit_6gallon.htm
They are both available in fast, medium and slow hardeners. In our heat I almost always use slow, except for very small jobs. They also use a 2/1 mix ratio which is easier than the 5/1 West.
Capt. Larry Teuton
Swamp Worshiper
Okay, not to start anything, but…
is epoxy stronger than polyester, yes!!
but so what, titanium is stronger than epoxy.
THE ENTIRE BOAT IS BUILT FROM POLYESTER!!!
polyester bonds to polyester well enough to hold the rest of the entire boat together.
I wont say I am an expert at glass and resin, but I have laid hundreds of square feet of glass and hundreds of gallons of polyester resin.
I have laid a fair amount of glass with epoxy as well.
I have never had a patch with polyester fail, EVER!
obviously nothing wrong with using epoxy, but to say it is an inferior product means the entire boat is inferior.
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quote:
obviously nothing wrong with using epoxy, but to say it is an inferior product means the entire boat is inferior.
Compared to epoxy hulls, yes it is inferior. Production boats are built in molds, in layers. From the outside in. The first thing sprayed in is the polyester gel coat, then polyester chop or cloth is put over that in multiple layers, wet on wet. It’s strong enough when used like that, usually, and the laminations are good. But it takes a lot more bulk and weight to get near equivalent strength of epoxy. Polyester is not even waterproof, water seeps through the molecules, which is why so many boats that stay in the water have hull blisters, rotten decks, transoms and stringers. If that boat was built with epoxy it wouldn’t be rotten now. I quit using poly when epoxy was invented about 40 years ago. They repair hull blisters with epoxy now, not polyester. There is a reason for that. With epoxy you can get twice the strength at half the weight. You could sink one of my boats with a bunch of weight, leave it underwater for 20 years, pull it out, clean it up and use it. There won’t be any rot, anywhere.
quote:
I wont say I am an expert at glass and resin,
I’d say I’m pretty close to one. Many in the industry call me one and consult with me anyway I don’t care what you call me, but I do know boat building:wink:
I’d never argue with Chris about engines though, he knows those a lot better than I do.
Edit to add: Epoxy built boats will weigh less, be stronger, require less HP for the boat size and burn less fuel. And will last a lot longer. Not many production boats will go 20 years without a lot of rot.
Hey guys any input on how to duplicate this part of the deck where the pedestal goes?
[URL=http://s61.photobucket.com/user/Daddydb/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsvninusjg.jpg.html]
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quote:
Originally posted by Cracker Larryquote:
obviously nothing wrong with using epoxy, but to say it is an inferior product means the entire boat is inferior.
Compared to epoxy hulls, yes it is inferior.
EXACTLY!!!
BUT WE ARENT COMPARING POLY HULLS TO EPOXY HULLS:stuck_out_tongue:
WE ARE COMPARING POLY HULL TO A REBUILT FLOOR SYSTEM IN A POLY HULL.
THIS ISNT AN AMERICAS CUP HULL OR A DRAG BOAT OR AN OFFSHORE RACING BOAT.
ITS A 15’ HIGH TIDE WITH A ROTTEN FLOOR AND NO MATTER HOW MUCH EPOXY RESIN YOU PUT ON THE STRONGEST COMPOSITE MATERIALS FOR THE FLOOR, ITS STILL A POLYESTER RESIN AND GLASS MAT HULL.
IS EPOXY BETTER THAN POLY?
YES, WELL PROVEN AND FULLY AGREED UPON.
KEVLAR AND CARBON FIBER REINFORCING WOULD BE EVEN BETTER, BUT COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY, JUST LIKE USING EPOXY TO PUT A FLOOR IN A 15 HIGH TIDE.
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quote:
IS EPOXY BETTER THAN POLY? YES, WELL PROVEN AND FULLY AGREED UPON
I do wish you wouldn’t shout That is the answer. Epoxy is best. Why use less than the best to save $100? That’s a tank of gas, food, beer, bait and ice for a day.
If I’m going to put my time into building or rebuilding a boat, I’m using epoxy and the best of all materials available. Y’all use whatever you want. I put a lifetime guarantee behind my work, on both builds and repairs, and nothing has ever come back to me, yet.
Capt. Larry Teuton
Swamp Worshiper
“I put a lifetime guarantee behind my work, on both builds and repairs…”
Whose lifetime, yours or the boat? That is an attempt at humor. Both points are valid. I’m cheap and I prefer vinyl ester. My man at CFF here in Savannah would give you a chemical breakdown of the reactions. I just want it to stick with the least amount of expense and grief. A good prep, IMO, is the most important.
quote:
Whose lifetime, yours or the boat?
Mine. I’m comfortable that the boat will live longer than I will.
Capt. Larry Teuton
Swamp Worshiper
AND ONCE AGAIN LARRY WE AGREE
oh sorry full caps again, but I do have a disclaimer at the bottom of all my posts
if I was getting paid to do glass work, I to would use the best of the best as well. but for a guy fixing his own floor, I would be using polyester resin, and…(you are probably gonna need to seek medical attention after this), regular plywood, yep, I said it out loud, regular plywood, and I have done it MANY times. just make sure and completely seal the panel with resin and glass before installing.
I know it doesn’t have marine rated glue, but if you get water in between the layers of wood, that will allow the glue to come apart, you already lost the battle, it just takes longer to die using the more expensive harder to find marine plywood.
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Love my epoxy surfboards. Have some Xanadus that are 10 years old, and still look new. Usually only got a season or 2 on my polyester boards before delamination began.
Tall Sail Marine
Wow I didn’t realize I was starting such a debate. I see the points on both sides, so I think I’ll figure the costs of materials both ways and decide. Like Larry said, if it’s only a difference of $100 or so then I’ll probably go with epoxy mainly for the waterproof aspect
Debate is good. Budgets are a reality. You can’t take it with you but unless your rowing, you gots to buy gas for it.
ITS NOT REALLY A DEBATE, BECAUSE LARRY IS 100% CORRECT
EPOXY IS BETTER
MY ONLY POINT IS, THE BEST ISNT ALWAYS NECESSARY, AND THE BOAT ISNT GOING TO FALL APART IF YOU DONT USE THE BEST, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE ORIGINAL MANUFACTURER DIDNT USE THE BEST.
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