Phin…I’m just going to quote this whole insane rambling for safe keeping.
I can’t decide if my favorite line is where you think me bringing up stuff from '05 and '06 is going “too far”. I mean heck…OJ killed his wife like 10 years ago. I wish people would just let that go too.
Or if my favorite part is where you think Skinee pointing out your own contradictory statements about idnetifying triggers was going too far.
And the part about using Avets to “stick it to me” is definitely up for honorable mention.
Congrats…this was a true gem.
quote:Originally posted by Phin
Really? You have taken people who have never bottom fished before out on your boat and caught a dozen plus scamp as well as a few ARS? How about people who have never bottom fished being taken out and limiting on ARS? How about in a 17’ boat? It doesn’t matter that much to me… what matters is that you continue acting like I’m a jacka$$ for sharing information and insight on how I fish and why on here. I still use Avets regardless of greg1’s panties being in a wad months and years after I sold them, and I will still tell you what fish are on the bottom when I am bottom fishing regardless of who gets butt hurt or says that I’ve said a lot of stupid stuff. It’s the internet. I like to share ideas and information. I even like defending ideas and/or information. I am not making stuff up, and I’m not flip flopping on anything. You have no clue what I’m about if you think I’m like that. I’m open minded, but if I find something that works and that I believe in, I’m going to be loyal to it. Same thing with people… There’s no need to let it get serious when we’re on here wasting time. Greg1 takes it a little too far sometimes when he brings things up from 05 and 06. And I think you take it too far when you research my old posts to see where I described what triggers looked like
I’ve always thought it’s a no lose guess by pointing at the screen and saying… “thats a grouper” If you don’t catch a grouper, they just weren’t biting. If you catch one… “Told ya”. Move from spot to spot and a person is bout to guess right at some point.
Really? You have taken people who have never bottom fished before out on your boat and caught a dozen plus scamp as well as a few ARS? How about people who have never bottom fished being taken out and limiting on ARS? How about in a 17’ boat? It doesn’t matter that much to me… what matters is that you continue acting like I’m a jacka$$ for sharing information and insight on how I fish and why on here.
</font id=“quote”></blockquote id=“quote”>I don’t think you are a jackass for “sharing information” (which are really just a lot of assumptions from a handful of bottom fishing trips). I just think that you carry a chip on your shoulder and need to show a little humility. It’s just hard for me to sit here and see you spout things that I know for a fact are incorrect.
Also, don’t try to make me look like a bad guy for “sharing information”… Maybe I am mistaken, but I thought I was responding to this in your original post:
quote:
Skinnee, I have no idea what in the world the sonar was doing here. There's just no way to differentiate between two screens of little colors and blobs like these. I sure do wish I had brought a couple big scuba tanks on the boat so that somebody could dive down there and tell me what those blobs were. Heaven knows I would never be able to figure it out without that...
Sorry, but I thought you were calling me out and had something to say… But oh wait, you said that like 6 or 7 replies ago so it must be “old stuff”. I didn’t mean to dig up the past…
Phin, let me also teach you something here about yourself… There are two things that are important:
YOU say: “I will move in 10 minutes if nothing’s happening or if I didn’t get over what I wanted to get over.”
You say you search for “small marks” that “don’t have a big show”
Think about that for a minute… Implicitly you admit that your technique is not your sonar species identification skills, but knowing when to give up on a spot (after 10 minutes) or to not try to fish a spot that has a big show of bait. You don’t even realize that “big shows” indeed have grouper. Grouper eat bait too and hang out where there are big shows. What you are really doing is running away from other things that eat your cigar minnows. If you can avoid “big shows” on smaller spots, then you are essentially reducing the chances of your bait getting eaten by a red porgy or competing with a school of fresh cigar minnows which your grouper is likely to prefer over your mushy half frozen fish.
So, you need to think about what you are really doing. You aren’t calling scamps (even though you think you are). You are marking larger fish with a lack of smaller fish around. Therefore you are finding spots where possible grouper have less competition to eat your bait.
If you really KNEW for a fact that you were sitting on top of a school of XYZ, then you would wait it out. You never leave fish to find fish… A perfect example is the last time that Greg and I bottom fished together. We sat on a spot for an hour and didn’t catch the first red snapper. Then I put a different type of bait on that was much harder for red porgies to eat and I caught 3 legal red snapper in a row over the course of about 5-10 minutes. It’s an old trick that commercial guys use all the time. They don’t necessarily use a red porgies head because grouper love it. They likely use it because it will last long enough on the bottom for a grouper to find it. You see how I used the words “necessarily” and “likely”? It’s because I am no
The only time that I can say with certainty that I am looking at grouper is when I go DEEP (250-500) and I am hunting Swowies or yellow edge. I can also ID tiles on a sooth mud bottom in 600’. Triggers are almost a sure mark, and when fishing the ledge, I am pretty sure of B-liners. But to answer your question about Gags and ARS, no on a positive ID. I ASSume alot by what I am looking at from years of experience, and some times I am correct. Last week, we were marking good schools ob B-liners up about 25’ off the bottom, did not see anything that looked like grouper, but still KNEW that they would be around that much forage fish. I dropped a couple down on the big rig…score!
NMFS = No More Fishing Season
“Back home we got a taxidermy man. He gonna have a heart attack when he see what I brung him”
Last week, we were marking good schools ob B-liners up about 25’ off the bottom,
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Paul…hypothetical…If Tony Soprano had a pair of scissors in one hand and your “jewels” in the other and a diver was about to roll over the side. Would you tell Tony that if those weren’t B-liners he could cut off the “boys”?
Rob, I was shown what to look for on paper charts after finding structure or schools of bait, etc. with a flasher. This was when I was young. I was taught how snapper feed upwards usually and grouper feed downwards- usually. Then, some guys who bottom fish for a living and charter for a living further reinforced what I already had been taught. And fishing during all this time while seeing and watching the marks on the sonar has told me what certain fish look like and what certain fish’s preferred habitat during certain times of year look like. The same way I know what different things on the sonar mean is how I know what different water temps and depths mean for our fish throughout the year.
Y’all are right. There are lots of fish down there all the time. I am fishing with rod and reel though. I don’t care about fish that aren’t going to bite. I care about the bottom and what’s competing with my bait. You’re exactly right. And you’re partially right about guessing grouper over and over until they’re caught. How do you explain pulling up on spots first thing in the morning or first thing in the afternoon and catching what I want to catch though? Pure luck? Awesome diversity on the bottom? Or could it just possibly be that I know what I’m seeing on the fish finder and I know how to put the boat over it? You’ve not once admitted that could be possible. You’re whole-heartedly arguing that it isn’t true. You wonder why I rant on and on about what you say… as much as you feel what I’m saying is idiotic, I feel like what you’re saying is idiotic and demeaning. I learned how to work to get good fish. It is not lucky guessing or blind luck. It is work, knowledge and attention to detail that consistently does it. You continue saying a few bottom fishing trips. You don’t know what I know and how. You’re assuming things. You assume I don’t know how or can’t troll, but we did it out of Edisto every summer when I was growing up. You assume more than you think you’re calling me
Last week, we were marking good schools ob B-liners up about 25’ off the bottom,
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Paul…hypothetical…If Tony Soprano had a pair of scissors in one hand and your “jewels” in the other and a diver was about to roll over the side. Would you tell Tony that if those weren’t B-liners he could cut off the “boys”?
That pretty much sums it up... We are pulling up to the ledge and see a large school of small fish. Knowing that we are at the ledge, I think, "probably b-liner" by process of elimination and knowing what is most common at that depth. I might be right 60% of the time with the b-liners at the ledge, but I am not taking the "Tony Soprano Challenge"...
Skinee…there you go again trying to use logic with him.
Don’t waste your time. He has the syllogistic reasoning of a 6 year old.
Hell, he still thinks I have a problem with Avet reels.
You do have a problem with Avet reels. You won’t even try one because you think your buddies will laugh at you for using something a “terrible salesman” was selling.
If you have a problem with me and not the reels, then I hate to hear that. I offered to trade you a brand new Avet EXW30/2 for a brand new Shimano Tiagra 30WLRS because I knew we both had access to them, but you would have none of it. That was the pitch to you. I offered a way for you to actually use one instead of going off anything I could have said.
I would and have used a tiagra though. I don’t care for them. They feel heavy and awkward and they’re not as strong.
To you, I’m stating a fact there when I say that. Get over it, and realize it’s only an opinion.
Skinnee, I have no idea what in the world the sonar was doing here. There’s just no way to differentiate between two screens of little colors and blobs like these. I sure do wish I had brought a couple big scuba tanks on the boat so that somebody could dive down there and tell me what those blobs were. Heaven knows I would never be able to figure it out without that…
Sorry, but I thought you were calling me out and had something to say… But oh wait, you said that like 6 or 7 replies ago so it must be “old stuff”. I didn’t mean to dig up the past…
I was just picking on you because I knew you were waiting up for me to post my report on whatever I got done yesterday afternoon.
The report was fashioned in a way that would reach 2000 views and 5 pages. We’re almost there…
The only time that I can say with certainty that I am looking at grouper is when I go DEEP (250-500) and I am hunting Swowies or yellow edge. I can also ID tiles on a sooth mud bottom in 600’. Triggers are almost a sure mark, and when fishing the ledge, I am pretty sure of B-liners. But to answer your question about Gags and ARS, no on a positive ID. I ASSume alot by what I am looking at from years of experience, and some times I am correct. Last week, we were marking good schools ob B-liners up about 25’ off the bottom, did not see anything that looked like grouper, but still KNEW that they would be around that much forage fish. I dropped a couple down on the big rig…score!
NMFS = No More Fishing Season
“Back home we got a taxidermy man. He gonna have a heart attack when he see what I brung him”
Would you be willing to say that you’ve never seen a grouper on the sonar and had a strong feeling it was a grouper?
You can see them at certain spots and certain times of day. Lots of times, they aren’t going to show because they’re under crap. Right?
So we’re looking for what they eat or the kind of bottom they’re in.
I think you fish differently than me… in general. I think I like to go to more spots in a day than you like to. I could be wrong though. Hopefully, I’ll get to see if we fish with one another.
You do have a problem with Avet reels. You won’t even try one because you think your buddies will laugh at you for using something a “terrible salesman” was selling.
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Do you lie in all aspects of life or just about fishing and stuff related to fishing?
Telling lies about people is a good way to get yourself into trouble.
quote:Originally posted by Phin
If you have a problem with me and not the reels, then I hate to hear that. I offered to trade you a brand new Avet EXW30/2 for a brand new Shimano Tiagra 30WLRS because I knew we both had access to them, but you would have none of it. That was the pitch to you. I offered a way for you to actually use one instead of going off anything I could have said.
I would and have used a tiagra though. I don’t care for them. They feel heavy and awkward and they’re not as strong.
To you, I’m stating a fact there when I say that. Get over it, and realize it’s only an opinion.
And then again…another example of how your syllogistic reasoning is about as strong as my 4 year old neice’s.
In your mind, because I didn’t trade you $800 worth of trolloing reels you assume I have something against Avets?
Hey dumbass…how 'bout I just don’t need $800 worth of trolling reels right now. Or how bout this…I’ll go buy a Ferrari and you go buy a Lamborghini and we’ll trade? No? Well, you must not like Ferrari’s then.
The only time that I can say with certainty that I am looking at grouper is when I go DEEP (250-500) and I am hunting Swowies or yellow edge. I can also ID tiles on a sooth mud bottom in 600’. Triggers are almost a sure mark, and when fishing the ledge, I am pretty sure of B-liners. But to answer your question about Gags and ARS, no on a positive ID.
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I agree there, You have a depth and size of the fish which lets you make a logical guess for deepwater grouper or tiles. A school of beeliner size fish up in the water column is a pretty safe bet on the ledge to be beeliners. But then again beeliners and scamp are almost always on the ledge.
Phin,
I probably average around 7 dives a trip. If you compare number of spots you or I have hit you also have to consider the quality of the data. I look at the screen then go down and know for sure what is there. When you fish a spot the only thing you know 100% is whatever you reeled up was there.
Stop before you think I’m bashing because I am not. I am trying to make a point about the quality of data we gather when we dive. I’m a pretty detail oriented person. After well over 1000 dives of looking at the scope and seeing 100% what is really down there i have to respectfully disagree that a person can look at the scope and ID a species from the colors.
I’ve found you can tell the size of the fish, and depth which paul pointed out can identify snowies, tiles, and reasonably beeliners and AJ’s.
Rob H
Charleston diving http://www.charlestondiving.com (Fish not Biting? Try a fast presentation of spring steel)</font id=“green”>
You’ve not once admitted that could be possible. You’re whole-heartedly arguing that it isn’t true. You wonder why I rant on and on about what you say… as much as you feel what I’m saying is idiotic, I feel like what you’re saying is idiotic and demeaning.
You have such a short memory...
quote:
So, bottom line, can you look at a sonar and make some educated guesses about what is down there and be right sometimes? Sure. Can you definitely identify grouper on a sonar? No way. There will be MANY times that you tell me - no grouper are there and I will videotape dozens of them. There will be other times you tell me that grouper are all over the place and we wouldn't see hardly any at all. You just simply cannot see with a sonar what you can see with your own eyes. Will you be correct sometimes, YES! Would you let me hold a gun up to your head and pull the trigger russian roulette style every time you are wrong? I would guess that your overly confident stance might fade just a little if that were the case.
I would be willing to bet cold hard cash that you cannot tell the difference between a school of amberjacks, rudderfish, and spades on a sonar. You tell me… Blah, blah, blah… I don’t fish wrecks… But you have seen schools of spades on the sonar before in your 100’ live bottom spots. You just didnt’ know what they were.
There is one more thing that you should know… Every piece of live bottom out there in 100’ has grouper on it 12 months out of the year. You have such an incredibly limited view from topside it’s nearly impossible to draw conclusions from a sonar. I could take you to a spot right this very second that has 100 undersized scamps on
Also, how could you tell the difference between those puny little red snapper and white grunts?
And why do commercial fishermen need “indicator species” to help them figure out if grouper are below?
And if “blob reading” is so exact, then why doesn’t my furuno just tell me what is down there? If your cresent shaped, yellow pudding in the middle theory is such exact science, then why can’t my furuno pick up on that and have an arrow that says, “red snapper” next to it? I mean come on, that would be worth BILLIONS of dollars and if a law student has it figured it all out then surely the guys at Furuno would have cashed out on it by now, right?
