quote:little drummer boy
Originally posted by jisuhoall of the answers you need are found here:
https://biblicaltheologyofscience.wordpress.com/
“Whoops, I did it again!”
BTW, I move at the speed of thought.
j
There is no way to answer question 1.
But, if the answer to question 1 is that we truly exist in a form somewhat close to what we ‘perceive’, then the other people around us must perceive the world similarly to the way we (individually) do. Social structures could not develop if we did not have a somewhat common understanding of the environment we live in and how others in that environment understand it. So, what you think you perceive about your environment must be real to some extent.
Re: question 2. It doesn’t matter.
Re: question 3. It doesn’t matter. (matter - a pun, and on purpose.)
Re: question 4. My understanding of the space/time stuff is that if you move away near speed of light (nsol), then your time slows. However, for you to ‘see’ what has happened in my time frame, you have to wait for that info that catch up to you. So, you don’t really ‘see’ it any sooner than I would. If you turn back toward your original position at nsol, then you close the gap, but, the travel time for both you and the info from my time frame combine to keep us generally in sync.
Never got into the Bears. Neither as a kid or with my kids.
17’ Henry O Hornet w/ Johnson 88 spl
26’ Palmer Scott project hull
14’ Bentz-Craft w/ Yamaha 25
quote:
Originally posted by poly ballquote:little drummer boy
Originally posted by jisuhoall of the answers you need are found here:
https://biblicaltheologyofscience.wordpress.com/
“Whoops, I did it again!”
BTW, I move at the speed of thought.
j
AKA mathgeek in various other fishing forums across the Southeast. Misdirecting members into believing he was local and pawning his ‘gospel version’ of life. And receiving the same deserved blowback as he received here.
j
quote:Fun thought experiment, and I don't have the time or the amount of marijuana needed to really get into it, however...
Originally posted by skinneejquote:You don't need to go over the speed of light. It's a factor of how far apart you are and motion... Here is a video that explains the theory... Involves an "alien" being a huge distance away, but moving only relatively slowly...
Originally posted by Edistodanielquote:
Originally posted by skinneejED, anyway, what are your thoughts on the original topic? Assuming you don’t have to talk about God, what are your thoughts on our “reality” or “existence”?
Too many questions for a Thursday. I can’t type GC style monologues on here. Need more info about the special relativity question to answer. I know that the for determining relative velocities between two approaching objects is not a+b=c, it’s:
v1 + v2
v1 x v2
--------+1
c^2
(Had to google it, been a long time since physics)
so you’d never go over the speed of light, so you wouldn’t see into the future. But I’m not sure what you’re asking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO_Q_f1WgQI
Some of these hypothetical thought situations where modern theories produce these crazy results (like seeing into the future) just shows that either you, I, or scientists in general don’t understand the whole story yet. Kind of like dark matter for me. Now, I’m not a physic
quote:But what I mean is: what if there are no "others"? What if you are the only entity (other than your creator)? And what if "others" are just your own mind creating characters (or someone else's mind outside of your reality perhaps) on your own storyline? If we go back to the dream example, there aren't any "others" that are living in your dream, but you certainly see and interact with "others" because they are usually a part of the dream completely fabricated by your subconscious imagination. So, any "social structure" is also "in your head". Just like in a dream, you might have friends, enemies, etc.
Originally posted by PalmerScottThere is no way to answer question 1.
But, if the answer to question 1 is that we truly exist in a form somewhat close to what we ‘perceive’, then the other people around us must perceive the world similarly to the way we (individually) do. Social structures could not develop if we did not have a somewhat common understanding of the environment we live in and how others in that environment understand it. So, what you think you perceive about your environment must be real to some extent.
quote:
Originally posted by PalmerScottRe: question 4. My understanding of the space/time stuff is that if you move away near speed of light (nsol), then your time slows. However, for you to ‘see’ what has happened in my time frame, you have to wait for that info that catch up to you. So, you don’t really ‘see’ it any sooner than I would. If you turn back toward your original position at nsol, then you close the gap, but, the travel time for both you and the info from my time frame combine to keep us generally in sync.
I think I have heard that version as well, but there were some experiments done such as flying atomic clocks around the world in an atomic jet. Also, the GPS satellites (travelling 18,000 mph) receive time dilation corrections constantly to keep their time from drifting away from “Earth time”. If we don’t correct for “time dilation”, then errors in GPS would drift by something like 10km per day! In general, it’s just pretty “freaky” to understand that time is not a constant.
quote:Check out the conspiracy theory on the bears. Evidently, someone went back in time somewhere between right now, and our childhoods and changed the spelling to be politically correct. :smiley:
Never got into the Bears. Neither as a kid or with my kids.
quote:
Originally posted by skinneejquote:But what I mean is: what if there are no "others"? What if you are the only entity (other than your creator)? And what if "others" are just your own mind creating characters (or someone else's mind outside of your reality perhaps) on your own storyline? If we go back to the dream example, there aren't any "others" that are living in your dream, but you certainly see and interact with "others" because they are usually a part of the dream completely fabricated by your subconscious imagination. So, any "social structure" is also "in your head". Just like in a dream, you might have friends, enemies, etc.
Originally posted by PalmerScottThere is no way to answer question 1.
But, if the answer to question 1 is that we truly exist in a form somewhat close to what we ‘perceive’, then the other people around us must perceive the world similarly to the way we (individually) do. Social structures could not develop if we did not have a somewhat common understanding of the environment we live in and how others in that environment understand it. So, what you think you perceive about your environment must be real to some extent.
If it was all make believe, would you really choose to create a place to go to work? I’m afraid we all live in the real world…
“Endeavor to Persevere.
Give,Give… Never Take.”
EC
quote:Yes, this sounds about how the "multiverse theory" or "string theory" came about (at least to me)... String theory claims to be the perfect bridge between quantum theory and general relativity. They claim that they have the perfect formula, but the only deal is that they need for 10 different dimensions to exist (which they are now trying to prove in extra dimensions with a hadron collider).
Originally posted by EdistodanielFun thought experiment, and I don’t have the time or the amount of marijuana needed to really get into it, however…
Some of these hypothetical thought situations where modern theories produce these crazy results (like seeing into the future) just shows that either you, I, or scientists in general don’t understand the whole story yet. Kind of like dark matter for me. Now, I’m not a physicist, but my understanding of dark matter “discovery” was basically as follows:
Scientist 1: Based on our understanding of math, the universe is expanding far too rapidly given the amount of mass present in the universe.
Scientist 2: Well, there’s something we can’t see then. We’ll call it dark matter. Now the equation works.
Scientist 1: Sounds good. Lunch time yet?
Boom, theory.
That being said, the predicted phenomenon of “time dilation” (part of Special Relativity) has actually been proven millions of times over, and we actually use this in practical sense in our every day lives. It’s just not something that we know that we are experiencing… If you and I had perfectly synchronized atomic clocks and you spent a life sitting here in the backwoods of SC, yet I spent my life traveling the world on commercial jets, we could reconvene years later only to see that your clock was ahead of mine. Again, the answer is because I experienced LESS TIME than you did because I wa
quote:Well why do you go to work now? (That's a serious question by the way to explore your idea further)...
Originally posted by pescazorroIf it was all make believe, would you really choose to create a place to go to work? I’m afraid we all live in the real world…
quote:
Originally posted by skinneejquote:Well why do you go to work now? (That's a serious question by the way to explore your idea further)...
Originally posted by pescazorroIf it was all make believe, would you really choose to create a place to go to work? I’m afraid we all live in the real world…
To sustain my standard of living. With your logic though, if I am imagining the world around me, I can assure you I would imagine my way into a billionaires standard of living. And I would be having a lot more sex for that matter…
On separate note, I have the same commute every morning on a stretch of interstate that has no traffic. I set me cruise the same every morning and afternoon at exactly 80 mph. I swear it seems every once in a while I’ll have “hanger” where I am 6 or 7 minutes behind between exits and sometimes I’ll have a “creeper” where I am 6 or 7 minutes ahead. Is something wrong with my flux capacitor or is my space time continuum off on certain days?
“Endeavor to Persevere.
Give,Give… Never Take.”
EC
Dream or reality, here’s one thing that could happen if we live long enough. Artificial intelligence. Every year chips and computing capacity is growing exponentially. Korea says by 2020 all there homes will have a robot. Bill Gates says by 2030 all homes will have a robot.
As their “I.Q.” matches ours do to outrageous processing speeds when do they reach a state of awareness? When they reach awareness and their thought process surpasses us what then? Do they watch us and see us kill a mouse in a trap because it is a nuisance to us and then decide that Oxygen is a nuisance to them because it corrodes their circuitry?
Just think if there was a supercomputer greater than our brain with self awareness. what will the created do once they find they are greater than the creator?
imagine a robot making improvements to itself at faster than light speeds? Pull of an arm and experiment with it to make it better, invent an anti gravity propulsion system to travel better, find man a threat and destroy the threat. ?
or just have an asteroid hit our planet in the next several years and wipe out everything… There is the ultimate lottery ticket.
“If Bruce Jenner can keep his wiener and be called a woman, I can keep my firearms and be considered disarmed.”
quote:
Originally posted by pescazorroTo sustain my standard of living.
But going back to the Matrix (movie) example, everyone works, because their reality feels incredibly “real” to the point where they can’t tell the difference between what is real (living in jars of fluid) and what is simulated (the Matrix). In the Matrix, they all work because that is their “reality” even though it is not “real”. So, again, what if you are in a simulated world where you only believe that you have to do work, or you die a virtual death?
quote:
With your logic though, if I am imagining the world around me, I can assure you I would imagine my way into a billionaires standard of living. And I would be having a lot more sex for that matter....
Well, that would depend on the assumption that you KNOW you are in a dream world and that you KNOW how to manipulate your subconsciousness to manipulate the state of reality. Like in the Matrix, Keanu Reaves couldn’t change anything about his simulated reality without taking the “pill” and being taught how to do this. It’s because his brain did not possess the skillset to “see through” the simulated reality around him.
A more practical example is to suggest that you have control over all of your dreams during REM sleep. Why do I dream of falling off of a cliff, or being chased by something? Why don’t I just dream of being Hugh Heffner every night? Surely, if I had complete control of my dreams, I would dream positive things, and never negative things, but when we sleep our sub conscience is mostly in control, not our consciousness… So, your claim above about being able to
quote:
Originally posted by Fred67Dream or reality, here’s one thing that could happen if we live long enough. Artificial intelligence. Every year chips and computing capacity is growing exponentially. Korea says by 2020 all there homes will have a robot. Bill Gates says by 2030 all homes will have a robot.
In the business, we commonly refer to this as “Moore’s Law”. Yes, compute will keep getting more and more powerful for sure. I don’t know if there are any physical limitations (i.e. how small you can make a transistor), but maybe we hit some or maybe we don’t. That being said, I don’t think we know YET quite how powerful the brain is. If the brain is already a million times better than the fastest super computer on earth, then how long will it take to catch up and will there be some physical property that prevents us from going all the way? No idea on that one…
quote:
As their "I.Q." matches ours do to outrageous processing speeds when do they reach a state of awareness? When they reach awareness and their thought process surpasses us what then? Do they watch us and see us kill a mouse in a trap because it is a nuisance to us and then decide that Oxygen is a nuisance to them because it corrodes their circuitry?
First, let us define what “awareness” is… Modern computer logic analyzes inputs and outputs, and most AI that I have seen looks a few “moves” into the future (like chess) and determines the best path based on probability. That being said, there is a lot more to human consciousness than that… Do you love your wife because she has “nice hooters”, or because you “get along”, or
quote:
Originally posted by skinneejquote:
Originally posted by PalmerScottRe: question 4. My understanding of the space/time stuff is that if you move away near speed of light (nsol), then your time slows. However, for you to ‘see’ what has happened in my time frame, you have to wait for that info that catch up to you. So, you don’t really ‘see’ it any sooner than I would. If you turn back toward your original position at nsol, then you close the gap, but, the travel time for both you and the info from my time frame combine to keep us generally in sync.
I think I have heard that version as well, but there were some experiments done such as flying atomic clocks around the world in an atomic jet. Also, the GPS satellites (travelling 18,000 mph) receive time dilation corrections constantly to keep their time from drifting away from “Earth time”. If we don’t correct for “time dilation”, then errors in GPS would drift by something like 10km per day! In general, it’s just pretty “freaky” to understand that time is not a constant.
First, all of this is sophistry. But, fun to think about. So, as a sophist, I say…
The GPS satellites are taking a very slightly different path than we are. If we stopped correcting the time on a satellite for a while and let it drift (the clock, not the satellite) for a while and then brought the satellite back to Earth’s surface it would not magically suddenly show the same time as Earth time. It would still show the drift. Obviously, the rate of change of events on the satellite will have been different from that on the surface. But, at any point in the
quote:
Originally posted by skinneejHmmmm… Isn’t that the story of the Bible? We have a Creator, yet we always think we can do a better job than Him and we don’t need Him anymore? Even in the book of Genesis, Adam and Eve bit into the forbidden fruit to become “like gods”… Quite amazing if you think about it… Maybe God actually let’s us create robots like this to learn the ultimate lesson
I’ve never once in my life ever thought I could do better than the creator and I know i’m not alone. maybe if the robot scenario plays out, they’ll keep some of us around. 
“If Bruce Jenner can keep his wiener and be called a woman, I can keep my firearms and be considered disarmed.”
I cant believe yall are using a Keanu Reeves movie to explain our existence…
“Endeavor to Persevere.
Give,Give… Never Take.”
EC
quote:You've never had a moment of pride, arrogance, or feeling of self-reliance? Wow! That must be amazing to be so humble!!! :smiley: People pick their own will over God's all of the time. If you don't think this goes on, you aren't studying hard enough!!!
Originally posted by Fred67I’ve never once in my life ever thought I could do better than the creator and I know i’m not alone. maybe if the robot scenario plays out, they’ll keep some of us around.
quote:
Originally posted by PalmerScottFirst, all of this is sophistry. But, fun to think about. So, as a sophist, I say…
Sophistry as in “fallacious arguments used to deceive”? How so? Which parts can you prove are fallacious? Where is a deception being laid out?
These are asking questions\speculating about what we do not know.
quote:
The GPS satellites are taking a very slightly different path than we are. If we stopped correcting the time on a satellite for a while and let it drift (the clock, not the satellite) for a while and then brought the satellite back to Earth's surface it would not magically suddenly show the same time as Earth time. It would still show the drift. Obviously, the rate of change of events on the satellite will have been different from that on the surface. But, at any point in the drift there would be a matching pair of time values between the two time lines.
I don’t know about your last sentence, but that’s what “time dilation” is… Because these clocks show different time values, means that the satellite experienced less time relative to our own… In the example about “matching pair of time values”, I think you mean that if we take several snapshots (say every hour), where we could observe the time (Earth local time, satellite local time) that we could obtain measurements. They would still drift away from each other though, so I don’t know what that proves. You would see these snapshots just drift further and further apart over time.
quote:
I
You have slightly corrected my definition of sophistry. I am suddenly slightly less ignorant. 
17’ Henry O Hornet w/ Johnson 88 spl
26’ Palmer Scott project hull
14’ Bentz-Craft w/ Yamaha 25
quote:
Originally posted by skinneejquote:You've never had a moment of pride, arrogance, or feeling of self-reliance? Wow! That must be amazing to be so humble!!! :smiley: People pick their own will over God's all of the time. If you don't think this goes on, you aren't studying hard enough!!!
Originally posted by Fred67I’ve never once in my life ever thought I could do better than the creator and I know i’m not alone. maybe if the robot scenario plays out, they’ll keep some of us around.
I think you are sidelining a bit. I am a sinner as are we all. I don’t consider any of my sins thinking I could do better than God… never thought of it that way. Have I gone against God’s wishes? yes. Just glad I’m able to ask for forgiveness.
“If Bruce Jenner can keep his wiener and be called a woman, I can keep my firearms and be considered disarmed.”