You mean like when you say ARS school with others of the same size based on what you see diving, but as we caught the big ones in the pic above, we were throwing back 14 and 15" ones off the same 20x20 spot?
I am not bitter dude. It’s just fun to let you get going and then see how you can get your foot into your mouth somehow even when you’ve been right up until that point.
Phin, for one I'm not the one with my foot sticking out of my mouth. You lose just about every debate you enter on this forum.
Secondly, I said that Red Snapper “tend” to school in the same size. The word “tend” implies that there are exceptions and that this is not always the case. But, I have verified this behaviour with my own eyes and have also heard the theory from commercial fishermen long before. Also, why do you just assume that since you caught fish anchored up on one spot that they all came from the same school? Do you not think that fish move around on a reef? What if you guys actually anchored up on a rock and drew in two schools of fish? You probably have a vision in your head that a school just hovers over a small spot on the ground and sits there waiting for you to anchor over them precisely.
Again a 20x20 spot is an assumption that you are making about your fishing area. I’ve done 120 dives in charleston waters in the past 24 months and have never seen a single 20x20 reef. Have you ever considered that you may only be marking the most significant part of the structure? Also, how do you measure the size of a rock with a sonar?
I really think that I need to make you a copy of some of the underwater video that we have taken. I think you will be suprised that the little visions you have in your head about bottom fi
Take some deep breaths and read more slowly. I know that you’re not used to talking to someone that you can’t get a grip on. You’re all over the place with me. You go from S&M sharkland to saying your knowledge or reasoning on something or another is superior to mine since you have an engineering background or scientific education. I have a BS in Environmental Resource Econ. Part of that little note on some paper was a few fisheries biology and management courses. I’m just a fact-shifting lawyer type to you though. Nevermind the fact that the people who know the most about any of this stuff probably are not wasting their time on the internet talking about it like us.
If I was over an MPA looking at the bottom, it’d be for a purpose with no more worth than taking pictures of fish shows to debate on the internet. I doubt I’ll even do that.
The MPA straight out of Chas. should come in to around 135 or so, shouldn’t it?
And did you see my skinnee on powerheads thread I started for you yesterday?
I know what your MPA "purpose" is. I'm asking you, why do you need an MPA to do research? Why not use one of your spots that is not an MPA? Would it somehow skew the data if you used a non-MPA spot? Do you understand the English that I am typing here? 135' is deeper than I dive. 120' is my max and I've had some near blackout experiences in that depth so I prefer to stay a little shallower. Capiche? Again Phin, don't just ***assume*** that 135' is shallow enough. Ask, look it up, whatever you need to get some facts to start out with in a debate. Try to limit your assumptions or at least qualify them as something other than fact. Use what they tried to teach you in your marine fisheries biology. Didn't you guys study anything about the scientific process?
20x20 is the size of what our lines were hitting. A 14" fish and a 30" fish were hooked at almost the same time- 3 feet away from one another.
The spot is actually several hundred feet each way, but some parts of it tend to show bait and others tend to show trash fish… others seem to show some better quality fish. I’m sure you’d like to take a look at it, but it unfortunately is not part of what you consider to be offshore of South Carolina.
Back to the debating thing. I don’t care if I “lose.” It’s the internet.
20x20 is the size of what our lines were hitting. A 14" fish and a 30" fish were hooked at almost the same time- 3 feet away from one another.
The spot is actually several hundred feet each way, but some parts of it tend to show bait and others tend to show trash fish… others seem to show some better quality fish. I’m sure you’d like to take a look at it, but it unfortunately is not part of what you consider to be offshore of South Carolina.
Back to the debating thing. I don’t care if I “lose.” It’s the internet.
But the problem with losing on the internet is that the whole world can see it and it will be around for possibly a long time...
Where is the powerhead discussion? I would like to participate.
20x20 is the size of what our lines were hitting. A 14" fish and a 30" fish were hooked at almost the same time- 3 feet away from one another.
The spot is actually several hundred feet each way, but some parts of it tend to show bait and others tend to show trash fish… others seem to show some better quality fish. I’m sure you’d like to take a look at it, but it unfortunately is not part of what you consider to be offshore of South Carolina.
But you guys started a feeding frenzy. It's another thing that I have personally witnessed. This past October (I can get the exact date if you need it for your defense), we tied a lobster head on the end of a jug line and dropped it overboard. We dove in a few minutes behind it and I saw about 10-15 undersized "ARS" a few scamps, some triggers, and red porgies attacking it like they were pirannah. I seriously doubt all the fish started out in the same school. I didn't see any markings that identified them as cryps or bloods and they scattered in differnt directions when I descended on them. When you drop dead baits on a live bottom, it tends to draw fish in. It just happens Phin. That's why God gave fish tails, so they can swim. Thank God they do move, because after you caught all the fish in the back of the boat, you might have needed to move to the bow to catch a few more.
Take some deep breaths and read more slowly. I know that you’re not used to talking to someone that you can’t get a grip on. You’re all over the place with me. You go from S&M sharkland to saying your knowledge or reasoning on something or another is superior to mine since you have an engineering background or scientific education. I have a BS in Environmental Resource Econ. Part of that little note on some paper was a few fisheries biology and management courses. I’m just a fact-shifting lawyer type to you though. Nevermind the fact that the people who know the most about any of this stuff probably are not wasting their time on the internet talking about it like us.
If I was over an MPA looking at the bottom, it’d be for a purpose with no more worth than taking pictures of fish shows to debate on the internet. I doubt I’ll even do that.
The MPA straight out of Chas. should come in to around 135 or so, shouldn’t it?
And did you see my skinnee on powerheads thread I started for you yesterday?
I know what your MPA "purpose" is. I'm asking you, why do you need an MPA to do research? Why not use one of your spots that is not an MPA? Would it somehow skew the data if you used a non-MPA spot? Do you understand the English that I am typing here? 135' is deeper than I dive. 120' is my max and I've had some near blackout experiences in that depth so I prefer to stay a little shallower. Capiche? Again Phin, don't just ***assume*** that 135' is shallow enough. Ask, look it up, whatever you need to get some facts to start out with in a debate. Try to limit your assumptions or at least qualify them
What did assuming that you could dive in 140’ cost me? I had no idea these things we assume when making debates were that serious. You may need to address a few more of the pictures above since you assumed that I couldn’t catch fish unless I was a bystander. Remember; that’s when your size assumption flip flop got stuck in your mouth.
I don’t have to do research on an MPA. Where is all that coming from? I just mentioned it loosely to bring it into the discussion since maybe possibly the pic of the B liners on sonar was from a spot that’ll be in the MPA.
Reelly, I know that I don’t have the whole picture from seeing sonar, but when you fish enough you can get pretty good and translating what your equipment is telling you. If not, then we must simply be lucky.
It cost you nothing. I'm just pointing out your typical argument pattern. Who cares if the area will be an MPA, take pictures somewhere else. Are you saying that is the only spot that you can "read"? If not, then shut up and find another spot outside of the MPA to prove me wrong. And for your last statement... Are you saying that you have a pretty high degree of accuracy translating sonar pictures into red snapper and grouper? If that is true, then why do you ever waste time fishing places that aren't full of red snapper and grouper? Nobody gives a **** about any other species so why must you anchor over a few different spots before you find them? Why don't you just pass over the spot completely if you don't see the "ARS" and the grouper down there? Save some time man and go right to the school!
I will do just that if you go ahead and drop a 1kW thru hull X-ducer off by my place by next week.
I thought you said you had commercial buddies…
Don’t you know that fish don’t bite 24-7? Don’t you know that sharks or other types of species can shut a bite off? Don’t you know that there’s more to catching fish than just knowing they’re under you? If not, then why would you want to get into that water with the neighborhood sand tigers and mame up fish with spears in front of those sharks? Is it really all because bottom fishing is boring and diving lets you be selective? Or are you just better at diving than you are at fishing?
I will do just that if you go ahead and drop a 1kW thru hull X-ducer off by my place by next week.
I thought you said you had commercial buddies…
Don’t you know that fish don’t bite 24-7? Don’t you know that sharks or other types of species can shut a bite off? Don’t you know that there’s more to catching fish than just knowing they’re under you? If not, then why would you want to get into that water with the neighborhood sand tigers and mame up fish with spears in front of those sharks? Is it really all because bottom fishing is boring and diving lets you be selective? Or are you just better at diving than you are at fishing?
Wait, so now you need a 1KW thru hull transducer? So are you saying that you have been unable to determine species at this point, but once you get the right equipment you will be able to?
Of course I know that fish don’t bite 24x7. Sometimes you have to wait them out… I think what you will have the jury believe is that whenever you “see” something on the sonar and you don’t catch it, then it must have not been biting. There is no possibility in your mind that maybe you didn’t really see any grouper down there to begin with and it was actually something that you misinterpreted as a grouper. But, when you do start catching grouper somewhere you can say, “see I told you those were grouper on the sonar”. That sounds kind of selective, doesn’t it?
Diving vs Bottom Fishing. I’m a visual person. I like to see what’s down there. It opens up my mind to learn much much more. You sit on the other side of the fence. You already know it all. That must be empowering. But for now, I will just keep my mind open and check it out for myself.
Anyway, you have taught me that I need to go trade in my $1500 color furuno digital machine b
I say no because my perspective comes from taking note of what the sonar looks like when certain species and sizes of fish are caught.
I never said that I could tell you what everything showing on the sounder was. I simply disagreed with you when you have said that you can’t tell when you’re looking at snapper or grouper.
I want you to make your argument with any contemporary bottom fishing charter captain who is known for bottom fishing success. They all value your camera and eyes, but I feel that you are twisting things when you say we cannot tell what kinds of fish are showing on a color sonar readout.
Simplifying things down again for you- your transducer truly sucks if you cannot tell the difference between certain types of fish. And again, you can tell me you have this many dives or that many dives. I don’t care. I have been on the boat with you when you refused to dive a spot that only had a small show on it. I saw even on your sounder spots that had grouper on them, but I’m guessing they would be harder for you to dive and spearfish as successfully as what you were looking for. You sought out the spots that had the largest shows and the more diverse life. In fact, I’ll bet some of your best dive spots are places I wouldn’t really want to fish…
I think there’s an assumption that you skipped over when developing this whole opinion regarding people’s sonars. We aren’t comparing the same types of spots when we think of what cannot be done with a sonar and what can be done. Some people find certain kinds of fish for a living, and telling them they don’t know what they’re looking at would be just plain silly if you ask me.
I say no because my perspective comes from taking note of what the sonar looks like when certain species and sizes of fish are caught.
I never said that I could tell you what everything showing on the sounder was. I simply disagreed with you when you have said that you can’t tell when you’re looking at snapper or grouper.
I want you to make your argument with any contemporary bottom fishing charter captain who is known for bottom fishing success. They all value your camera and eyes, but I feel that you are twisting things when you say we cannot tell what kinds of fish are showing on a color sonar readout.
Simplifying things down again for you- your transducer truly sucks if you cannot tell the difference between certain types of fish. And again, you can tell me you have this many dives or that many dives. I don’t care. I have been on the boat with you when you refused to dive a spot that only had a small show on it. I saw even on your sounder spots that had grouper on them, but I’m guessing they would be harder for you to dive and spearfish as successfully as what you were looking for. You sought out the spots that had the largest shows and the more diverse life. In fact, I’ll bet some of your best dive spots are places I wouldn’t really want to fish…
I think there’s an assumption that you skipped over when developing this whole opinion regarding people’s sonars. We aren’t comparing the same types of spots when we think of what cannot be done with a sonar and what can be done. Some people find certain kinds of fish for a living, and telling them they don’t know what they’re looking at would be just plain silly if you ask me.
Phin, I won’t mention names, but years ago I asked a VERY prominent charter captain in the area this exact questio
Skinny and Phin- When you wake up, please answer this question. What is the largest # wise gag, scamp and ARS that each of you have shot or caught on R&R? Thank you in advance.
Skinny and Phin- When you wake up, please answer this question. What is the largest # wise gag, scamp and ARS that each of you have shot or caught on R&R? Thank you in advance.
I have only caught gags and ARS in the 20-25# range. I’ve only bottom fished off South Carolina for those species though.
I use 3/0 and 4/0-sized hand crank reels and graphite jigging rods most of the time.
Skinnee has told me he prefers differently, so we have different approaches to rod and reeling as well.
can someone show me my tld 20, on the bottom that I know was jerked out of my friends hand by a gag and an ARS, cause it had a double rig on it.I really want that back.
